@I AM AN ANARCHISTno one claimed that the police never use excessive force, dude. I don't know where you got that. You're not addressing the point. Are some of them bad people? yes. Are all of them bad people? of course not, and if they use an appropriate amount of force at the appropriate time, with the adequate measures to ensure peoples' rights, most of us, albeit probably with the exception of anarchists, would say it is justified for the cops to use force to protect other people from a muderer."I am from a working/poor single mother family. I have had a job since I was 13 when I started working in the auto shop down the street from my house in Phoenix...."What's with all the diatribes about being more working-class than thou on this blog? The fact that you think "spoiled" necessarily refers to socio-economic status is pretty clear evidence of being obsessed with making connections about class that aren't there. I think Justdweezil meant "spoiled" in the sense that if this march had happened in the vast majority of countries in the world, the government would have sent the police to beat everyone down and suppress any expression of dissent. You are lucky enough to live in a country where you have the right to say this stuff about the cops, nevertheless have them clean up after your messes. By whining about how oppressed you are in progressive Lawrence, Kansas (a city which could, by the way, easily be classified as a democratic-socialist) you come across as spoiled.And after ranting about how people are assuming things about you, you are really making an unfounded leap by claiming these prior posts indicate some sort of pacifism your critics' behalf. No one has made a claim about the use of violence in other protest situations, and no one made a claim that you may do other volunteer work that helps a lot of people, I think they're just saying this particular instance of destruction was silly and juvenile. By the way, I've read some Zinn and Chomsky and Parenti in my time, man, so you can skip the "educate the ignorant capitalist about resistance" speech
"In the same thread where people are debating whether "the system" is violent. "The system" that gives us years of US war or support of war lords for market and capital interest. "The system" that lets people freeze in their beds or on the streets because they don't have the money to pay for basic human needs. "The system" that incarcerates over 2 million people in this country, meaning more than one in every hundred adults.How can anyone question whether "the system" is violent or not."Without going into how ludicrous it is (especially coming from a self-proclaimed libertarian) to say that the government is "violent" because it doesn't have the means to help pay everyone's heating bill, I think this debate about the "inherent violence of the system" is silly. Yes, sometimes the government uses force. That's a given in any government that wants to be effective in protecting its citizens. The point I think people are trying to make is that it's dramatic and polemical to use the word "violence" to refer to the justified use of governmental force to do things like protect citizens from a murderer. By the way, the government might have more funds to help those freezing people if they didn't have to clean up burning debris and spraypaint after a melodramatic anarchist rally protesting a grab bag of unrelated events, which apparently wasn't meant to change anything but rather was a way of "feeling empowered", "getting a lot of anger out", and "feeling good" (Dave's words, not mine). I don't usually go yelling through the streets telling cops I don't know that they make my life miserable when I need to get anger out and feel good, but to each his own I guess.
From Gaza to Greece, Lawrence to Oakland: We Do Mind Dying
@I AM AN ANARCHISTno one claimed that the police never use excessive force, dude. I don't know where you got that. You're not addressing the point. Are some of them bad people? yes. Are all of them bad people? of course not, and if they use an appropriate amount of force at the appropriate time, with the adequate measures to ensure peoples' rights, most of us, albeit probably with the exception of anarchists, would say it is justified for the cops to use force to protect other people from a muderer."I am from a working/poor single mother family. I have had a job since I was 13 when I started working in the auto shop down the street from my house in Phoenix...."What's with all the diatribes about being more working-class than thou on this blog? The fact that you think "spoiled" necessarily refers to socio-economic status is pretty clear evidence of being obsessed with making connections about class that aren't there. I think Justdweezil meant "spoiled" in the sense that if this march had happened in the vast majority of countries in the world, the government would have sent the police to beat everyone down and suppress any expression of dissent. You are lucky enough to live in a country where you have the right to say this stuff about the cops, nevertheless have them clean up after your messes. By whining about how oppressed you are in progressive Lawrence, Kansas (a city which could, by the way, easily be classified as a democratic-socialist) you come across as spoiled.And after ranting about how people are assuming things about you, you are really making an unfounded leap by claiming these prior posts indicate some sort of pacifism your critics' behalf. No one has made a claim about the use of violence in other protest situations, and no one made a claim that you may do other volunteer work that helps a lot of people, I think they're just saying this particular instance of destruction was silly and juvenile. By the way, I've read some Zinn and Chomsky and Parenti in my time, man, so you can skip the "educate the ignorant capitalist about resistance" speech
February 8, 2009 at 2:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
From Gaza to Greece, Lawrence to Oakland: We Do Mind Dying
*self-proclaimed anarchist
February 7, 2009 at 10:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
From Gaza to Greece, Lawrence to Oakland: We Do Mind Dying
"In the same thread where people are debating whether "the system" is violent. "The system" that gives us years of US war or support of war lords for market and capital interest. "The system" that lets people freeze in their beds or on the streets because they don't have the money to pay for basic human needs. "The system" that incarcerates over 2 million people in this country, meaning more than one in every hundred adults.How can anyone question whether "the system" is violent or not."Without going into how ludicrous it is (especially coming from a self-proclaimed libertarian) to say that the government is "violent" because it doesn't have the means to help pay everyone's heating bill, I think this debate about the "inherent violence of the system" is silly. Yes, sometimes the government uses force. That's a given in any government that wants to be effective in protecting its citizens. The point I think people are trying to make is that it's dramatic and polemical to use the word "violence" to refer to the justified use of governmental force to do things like protect citizens from a murderer. By the way, the government might have more funds to help those freezing people if they didn't have to clean up burning debris and spraypaint after a melodramatic anarchist rally protesting a grab bag of unrelated events, which apparently wasn't meant to change anything but rather was a way of "feeling empowered", "getting a lot of anger out", and "feeling good" (Dave's words, not mine). I don't usually go yelling through the streets telling cops I don't know that they make my life miserable when I need to get anger out and feel good, but to each his own I guess.
February 7, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
The Beast Amongst Us
tight
February 7, 2009 at 10:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )