Posted
by Bethany Jones
April 30, 2006 at 12:23 p.m.
Discipline.
[Brian][1] says: my g/f tammy is from a real strict home, like her mom and dad wont let her be out after 10 at night and they still spank her a lot even though shes a senior in high school. i am wondering how others on the board have responded to stuff like that, either with a g/f or a b/f whose parents are 2 strict w them? i really like her but this is tuff 2 deal withBethie says: If she's 17 or 18 she can always move out. At 17 it might be hard to get a place but I moved out at 17 and still was able to get an apartment and a job and go to school. If she's not able to move out, the curfew may be something you just have to deal with until she does move out.As far as the spanking, I'm not sure what your state laws are like, but that's ridiculous and could probably be considered child abuse if the mother is doing the spanking, and sexual abuse if the father is doing the spanking. At that age, spanking is REALLY innapropriate because your girlfriend is past puberty and almost an adult.If it's "that bad," she really should move out, or report them for abuse and stay in a foster home until she graduates.***Now, the above poster really doesn't sound like he's a senior in high school, unless most seniors have typing skills that bad. HOWEVER, this isn't the first time I've heard of a parent spanking their teenager. What's up with THAT? Yes, I know that parents have a right to discipline, but spankings are for 2-8 year olds (and 8 years old is really pushing it). Much older than that, and you really are getting close to the line of sexually abusing your child. (And I feel the same way about women who breastfeed their 8 year olds.)I know many people don't agree with spanking your child, and I agree that for the most part there are other punishments that work just as well, if not better. Spanking your child for every small mistake is just as ridiculous as playing the "counting" game with them. (IE, "I'm going to count to three.") I distinctly remember my friends' mothers counting "1, 2, 2 and a half, 2 and three quarters..." If they even GOT to three, it meant nothing. There was no spanking, and little to no punishment.However, I do believe that there are certain instances in which spanking is OK. I honestly only ever remember being spanked twice. Once was for climbing around on grocery carts at the store and almost tipping the cart over (with my baby brothers inside), and once was for pushing Nick down while my dad was watching, and then lying about it (I was four). Because spanking was such a rare occurence, neither of the things I did to "deserve" a spanking were ever repeated, and 14 years later I still remember both times. I'm sure there were a few other instances, but those two really stick with me.BUT, spankings were always few and far between, and only for "serious" things (ie, putting ourselves in danger or putting someone else in danger), and always stopped by the time we were 7 or 8. I'm absolutely appalled at the idea that someone a year younger (or possibly my same age) is being spanked by her father, and no one is saying anything about it! Can someone honestly tell me that my father could give me a spanking and it NOT be something sexual? Of course not! He's 39 and I'm 18! People our ages get married and date ALL THE TIME. There is absolutely NO reason a father has to spank his 18 year old daughter. None. Unless they're committing incest, no.At 18, a daughter should be getting ready to move out and be on her own, if she isn't already. The discipline should be finished, the training complete. My last year at home my parents didn't tell me "no" to a single thing. They were there when I needed advice about a boy, or a major, or finding an apartment, but they didn't try to control me -- nor could they have. There is a certain point when a parent has to step back and realize that their job is done! And, as others have mentioned before, by 14 or 15, you probably won't be able to change a child's morals. By that age, they're pretty much set it their ways, and if you haven't gotten parenting right by then, there's not a big chance you'll be able to "fix" your child by the time they move out.Now, as the daughter of foster parents (but not a foster-daughter), I know the intense training that parents have to go through to be able to take care of a foster child. One of the main things you're taught is that you can NOT spank a child in your custody. Why? Because most people can't distinguish between discipline and abuse, and most of these children are in the system because they've been raped by their fathers or their mothers are burnt out druggies selling their bodies for more acid. Many of these kids have been starved, locked in trashcans, beaten, and molested. For many "normal" children, spanking MAY work, but for a child who has been abused, spanking is NOT the way to go. All it's going to do is mess them up more, freak them out, and get them sent to another foster home.I met a girl, when I was younger, who was 10 and her parents spanked her with a belt. I remember her coming to church one time, upset because her 8 year brother had told a lie to their dad, and gotten "40 lashes." I don't know if it's true or not, but I do know that when I went to their house the children were TERRIFIED of their parents. WHY would you want your child to live in fear of you? Sure, they shouldn't WANT to sin or disobey, but kids are kids and stuff happens. (Why do ADULTS sin and disobey? Being bad can be fun!) BUT just because someone does something wrong isn't a reason to leave bruises on their bum!So, if I was 17 or 18 (which I am) and my father was spanking me, I would get the heck out of their home. Seriously. Even if I was in high school, there's always someone who will let you live in their basement for a few months, and there's always someone you can room with inexpensively. If she's 17 she can get put into a foster home for a few months until she turns 18. All she has to do is call the police and scream sexual abuse -- they won't make her stay another night. And she shouldn't. [1]: http://www.fellowshipchat.com/shtml/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001122
Comments
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rednekbuddha (Kelly Powell) says…
The age old tradition goes thusly
1; spank the youngsters
2; when older apply ye old backhand to juncture of jaw and ear(hand canted at at 25 degree angle) for a serious breach...a cupped hand applied to the back of the skull in a upwards motion as a warning shot.
3: When soon to leave the nest....usually some form of slave labor or revoking of any monetary or vehicle support.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
I'm with you until the last paragraph. There's never always anything.
Its not fair to shrug off the horror that people live through by saying they simply have all these options they choose to ignore. Being able to observe the foster care system from a postion under the roof of possibly the coolest parents in the world and also possibly the finest foster parents in the US does not qualify you to evaluate the decision process of a seventeen year old with the power to stop the spanking but break up her family with a phone call. While your parents bring a lot more to the table than the mere ability to complete the 'intense' training required, there is no way for a teenager to know what will happen to them (or possibly their smaller siblings) in foster care. Nothing is easier than telling someone to jump off a cliff you've never even had to stand and look down from.
Todd (anonymous) says…
I'm so glad you say/think 18 years old is grown up. That's what I've always thought too. Most people treat college + a few years as the point when people become "grown ups".
Spanking> every child might not need it but some certainly do. Parents are human so mistakes will be made. If your spanking frequency is above none-rarely then spanking isn't working. IMHO spanking is for outright disrespect. All other disciple comes out of respect. Ages for spanking can vary a little but 3-4 up to 7-10 yrs old depending on the child is a good ballpark. Also, spanking need to happen quickly after an incident and have a clearly identified cause. (to the child) Oh, and don't threaten to spanking... or threaten children at all. The less you say the more they listen. (hence, avoiding multiple spankings for the same offence)
Being a parent is a HUGE task and you need ever option you can get to help raise your kids.
ladylaw (Terry Bush) says…
My parents very much believed in "spanking" children. My last one was at age 13 when I was playing basket ball with the neighborhood boys and broke my glasses (an expense we could not afford). Mom was the main spanker. Dad's spankings were reserved for really serious breaches (like said broken glasses). They did not care if they were fair. They did not care if we liked them. They did not care if we thought them the worst people/parents in the whole universe. All they wanted were children that followed the rules and kept out of trouble. And for the most part that is what they got. 4 children who follow the rules and stay out of trouble. Who also happen to think their parents did a fine job, despite rather liberal application of physical pain. But they could have probably gotten good results using different methods on each of their children. My sister was the type that spanking didn't deter one whit; she was just bound and determined to do things her way. I, on the other hand, could have easily been corrected with stern admonision; I wanted to please my parents.
No one punishment works for every situation or child. There is no one-way that always work. Nor can any parent know everything or do everything right/correctly. People do the best they can. A lot of the time, they do things the way their parents did.
I didn't spank my son but maybe 2-3 times, and always when he had scared me by doing something dangerous. He was the type you could have beaten bloody and it wouldn't phase, but if you explained things to him, you stood a chance at getting through to him.
As for spanking an 18 year old, I agree that is probably wasted effort and seriously odd/off. But I also know that there are probably some 18 year olds seem to be begging for such punishment (until you have spent 18 years feeding and caring for someone who has just flipped you off when you ask them to clear the table of dishes, you may not be able to understand the depth of rage that can overtake....). Not every 18 year old is capable of making semi-mature decisions. While society may consider them adult (for contract and other purposes) some people aren't adult even when they turn 80!!
Bottom line, each person and each situation is probably fact specific. The girl in question will have to decide for herself what options she has and which one(s) to choose. And, if/when she becomes a parent, it will be interesting to see if she changes and does things all that differently!
feeble (anonymous) says…
It is worth noting that Kentucky (where "Brian" and his girlfriend are from, according to the web-forum linked in this blog) has the following statue on books:
Parent/guardian/person/teacher with care and supervision of minor can use force if person believes force necessary for welfare of child and force is not designed to cause or known to cause a substantial risk of causing death, serious physical injury, disfigurement, extreme pain, or extreme mental distress. Sec. 503.110.[Cr.]
If the spanking is done using an object other than the parent's hand, or if the spanking leaves a marl. bruise or welt, it is considered abuse.
Finally, this only applies to minors! If Brian's girlfriend is an adult, there are some *serious* legal concerns here (Battery, Assault) even if the girlfriend chooses to live under her parents roof.)
feeble (anonymous) says…
It's also worth noting that in kansas, you can requet legal aid in "emancipating" yourself from your parents household when you turn 18. The specific law is intended to help those who are trying to leave abusive households.