Posted
by Matt Cox
September 2, 2005 at 2:07 p.m.
Best games of this generation
Matt
**Halo: Combat Evolved** - XboxI can hear a couple of my guys already cussing that I have the power to lead with something they believe is overrated. Mwa ha haaaah. Sorry, Halo's incredible sense of majesty, scope, awe, complex story arc, enigmatic protagonist, awesome controls, amazingly fun vehicle physics, weapons that mean something, levels that make sense, mystery, art direction, original score, ambience, original and inspired architecture, multiplayer component, multiplayer component and multiplayer component make this one of my favorite games of all time and arguably still the best console shooter ever. It spawned one of the most vibrant online cultures to boot.**Metroid Prime 2: Echoes** - GamecubeMetroid Prime won many "Game of the Year" awards in 2002 with its brilliant transformation into the 3D realm. It made believers out of skeptics and Nintendo fans out of Sony fanboys. Its delicate interweaving of storytelling, puzzle-solving and first-person action took the gaming world by storm. Many, including us, said that Prime was ahead of its time. Echoes refined everything, created a light/dark dimension to add an immediately tangible sense of depth and didn't alter the core mechanics of what made Prime 1 amazing. **Resident Evil 4** - GamecubeI really really really tried to NOT pick a game from this past year to prove I have that true big-picture-sense of the generation, but I failed. But no matter, even 10 years from now I will look back on this generation and say that Resident Evil 4 was a victory on many levels. It gave a new birth to the dying Survival Horror genre. The boss battles were varied and the atmosphere was incredibly convincing, minus the stupid voice acting from evil Napoleon midget. One of the most well-designed video games of our time.Trevan
**Grand Theft Auto 3** - PS2As cliched as it is, this game changed the parameters of what a game could be to me. It was one of the first games that allowed you to do whatever you wanted, you could progress through the game if you felt like it, but you didn't have to and that's beautiful. There are so many 'holy shit' moments in that game. Like the first time you steal a tank or the first time you mow down a group of triads with the M16 or when you snipe a mafia don from a roof top and then chase down his body guards just for the sake of it. Sure, there are moments like that in the sequels, but with GTA 3 it was all virgin territory. The story was simple, but it worked and I think it was brilliant that the protagonist (if you can call him that) didn't talk because you could put your own words in his mouth. When he did have something to say he let his gun say it for him.?**God of War** - PS2Okay, I'm prepared for any sort of backlash: It's the best action platformer for this generation of systems and probably last generations too. The graphics are astounding, the story is remarkable, Kratos is one of the baddest main characters too grace a videogame.? It's true that the beginning sets the bar pretty high and it takes a little while for the game to reach that level again, but that's a minor complaint in a game that features intelligent, well thought out puzzles, fantastic level design, and a combat system that sets the bench mark for what an action game should do. The fighting's so good in God of War that I was never frustrated to retry any section (well, except for the second part of the final battle) of the game. I mean, the man impales enemies on their own swords, tears the heads off gorgons, stabs minotaurs through the mouth, stomps puppies, and cuts enemies in half with their own, freshly detached, arm. Incredible.**Resident Evil 4** - GamecubeThe plot may be silly and the weapons upgrades/ damage physics may be pretty unrealistic, but who cares. The shift to a more action oriented gameplay mechanic feels right at home here. Rather than rely on surprise to generate fear like in past games in the series 4 achieves the best results of any in the series through the use of ambience and encounters in which? you are always outnumbered and rarely close to beneficial cover. The inclusion of more boss battles is welcome and gives you something to look forward to at the end of a stage. It doesn't hurt that RE4 is one of the prettiest games of this generation and with added Dolby 5.1 support the result can be bone chilling.?Chris Baker
**Half-Life 2 ** - PCThis game absolutely blew me away the first time I saw it. Actually, I had a similar reaction to Doom 3, but with HL2, that first impression didn't fade as I played through the game. Notch this one up as one of the best looking games of this generation, hands down. The physics engine probably made Seamus Blackley* cry out of tears of joy! The story, enthralling, the sound, perfect, and the action, non-stop. I really can't say enough about the game. Plus, HL2 continues the originals tradition of being the platform for playing the best mods on the net, ensuring endless replayability. The only real flaw I'd have to mention is it's dependence by design on the Steam Game delivery system, an innovative concept, but ultimately a real hassle in practice. This is a gem among the PC's rough, no doubt about it.**Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas** - PS2, Xbox, PCA big part of me hates to name this game as one of the top three, purely because it's not going to be a surprise to anyone. As much as I didn't like the gratuitous cursing and sexually charged atmosphere of the game, I couldn't help but be drawn in. Beneath it's extremely gritty attitude, lies an incredibly deep game that just seems to go on and on. It was such a joy to get the parachute, steal a leerjet, fly to a bazillion feet high, and then jump out right as the fighter jets are blowing your ride out of the sky, eliciting cheers from all in attendance. Especially when you consider the fact that such an act truly has nothing to do with the main game's story line, it's just the kind of thing you can do for fun. The upgrade from GTA III & Vice City came with improved controls, a better (from my viewpoint) sound track, better visuals (slightly), more vehicle options, and of course a huge increase in the size of the map. It's one big (very big) virtual playground. It certainly doesn't deserve any great graphics awards (far from it) and it's story line is pretty jumbled and non-sensical at times, but I just couldn't put down the controller for weeks at a time. And isn't that alone, what really makes a great game?**Halo 2** - XboxProbably one of the most eagerly anticipated titles of this past generation prior to its release last November, Halo 2 was a huge leap forward for console first person shooters that kicked ass and took names, hope you don't mind the cliche. I can't deny that the agonizing wait that lead to its launch, and the massive launch itself, didn't help with the excitement that I had for Halo 2, but beyond all the hype and glitter, the game truly shines on its own. With new abilities, much improved graphics, a very capable 'made from scratch' engine, and a robust multi-player mode, Halo 2 really solidified Master Chief's pop culture icon status in a big way, while making it one of the Xbox's, and developer Bungie's best releases ever. Only Halo 2 could knock Halo 1 of it's pedestal of being *the* lan party game of choice. Despite a few flaws/bugs in it's multiplayer (which were all relatively quickly fixed), and a somewhat sudden conclusion to the story in its single player game, it still stands out among all other first person shooters, console or PC. Now of course we sit and wait for Halo 3 (and it's new home, Xbox 360), which quite frankly, can't come soon enough for this gamer.Hanluen
**Resident Evil 4** - Gamecube-The best way to describe this game is by riding a rollercoaster, but each time you ride it you go faster. I think the greatest thing RE4 had going for it was it's pacing. RE games were always plagued by video gamer's block. RE4 on the other hand, continues to raise the bar chapter after chapter. I remember never wanting to take a break and continue through the adventure all the way through. Every time something mind blowing would occur I'd say to myself, "No way this game gets any better." I was constantly looking for regression of the excitement. Surely enough, Capcom through a big juicy zombie pie right in my face. So when's RE5 coming out?**World of Warcraft** - PC30 days. That's how much time of my life I have put into this game. And I'm not talking about playing it over a period of 30 days, I'm talking my play clock is over 30 days total. People in different parts of this world have died because of addiction to this game. So is this game good for you? Is it healthy? Is it pathetic? Is it a bad habit? I don't know. All I know is, it is damn fun.**Madden 2001** - PS2This is the reason I got a PS2. The revolution from the PSX and 64 era to the PS2 era was just astounding. I remember seeing the first screenshot of Madden '01 and it looked so real. The way the game is captured via television broadcast style has been taken for granted by so many. It's easily the most popular franchise of this gen, sales back me up on that, and to be quite honest, it's my belief that Madden 2001 carried the PS2 in its first year. The game to own at the time was Madden. Oh John...Dan
**Metal Gear Solid series** - PS2This generation saw the crowning achievement in the history of videogames. I'm referring to Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, the pinnacle of interactive entertainment. It featured what is still the greatest story ever told in a game, and backed it up with some absolutely amazing gameplay. On top of this, It was the first game to really show what the PS2 was capable of graphically (remember how amazed you were when you first saw the MGS2 trailer at E3 2000? It's gonna happen again with MGS4, by the way). Three years later, they hit the PS2 with another masterpiece: MGS3: Snake Eater. While not as complex or intricate as its predecessor, it still blows away every other gaming series ever made.**Resident Evil 4** - GamecubeIt's no secret that the fourth installment in the RE series changed all the rules. The clunky controls and constricting inventory system were discarded and replaced with far-superior gameplay mechanics. The over-the-shoulder perspective gave us the Resident Evil experience in an all-new light. It featured some extremely intense boss battles, amazing graphics, and varying environments. The village section of RE4 is one of my all-time favorite areas in a videogame.**Devil May Cry 3** - PS2Make no mistake about it, Devil May Cry 3 was MADE for hardcore action gamers. If you haven't played many action games before, Devil May Cry 3 had no remorse. You'd be dead by the end of the second level. This game truly rewarded players who took the time to master it. Blindly hitting square and triangle doesn't help you get past the hordes of enemies in DMC3. You have to learn their attack patterns, realize when to strike, and how to strike. Going through this game on Hard or Dante Must Die mode is one of the most difficult things you could ever attempt to do in a game, and it's extremely rewarding when you finally strike Vergil down after hours and hours of getting completely destroyed by him (and the numerous other bosses). DMC was a great game, DMC2 was disappointing, and DMC3 was an absolute masterpiece.Andrew
Katamari Damacy - PS2To be short sucks, but to be short and have a sticky ball roll things up is absolutely sublime. I'm not too sure how anyone developed the concept for this game about a small alien trying to roll stuff up to make stars, but it definitely is genius. I must admit that when I saw a friend play it, I was pretty sure it sucked. But then I played it and everything changed. Now I no longer think of the PS2 as the machine to play Final Fantasy games on, but rather the home of my little Katamari. It may be a rather short game, but the simplistic objectives (though not so easy to obtain), the vibrant colors applied to low poly models and a huge environment, and the absolutely bizarre story all add up to a most memorable experience.Halo - XboxYup, it won out over my many other favorite Xbox titles. This game didn't really win on its visual flare, though it still holds its own fairly well, or its story or sound or anything that the game did well by itself. The reason this game is in my top 3 list is because of the people I have met playing it at LAN parties and all the crazy memories I have of those times. Never before has a game ever connected this many people so well. Some can argue that Counter Strike does this because it is so popular, but it doesn't really have the human contact element that Halo does. The necessity of lugging an Xbox and/or TV over to another person's house just to play makes the experience that much more rewarding and enjoyable because you have taken the effort to be with these people. These connections are what make the Halo such a strong game and Halo 2 less so.Guild Wars - PCI know i wrote the review for this one and everyone can read up on how it fared there, but i don't think enough can be said about this game. In the PC gaming world there are a few games that define a genre and Blizzard was a company that made those games. Blizzard produced Diablo 1&2, StarCraft, and all the WarCraft games; and each title continued to improve and redefine the genre it was in. So when I found out the the lead designers that were instrumental in those titles had left Blizzard, along with their lead programmers for Battle.net, to form a new company, ArenaNet, I tried to keep up with their progress. So far their sole title has been Guild Wars and it has successfully melded every positive aspect from all those games into one giant MMORPG that breaks the mold. It isn't fettered by the stupid hang ups of other MMOs because the developers wanted it to be about the teamwork and the pvp as much as the story. And let me tell you this game has mastered the pvp element, because I now spend about 4 hours a day playing against other people. This game has moved to the top of my favorites list in a not so subtle or gentle way, but rather it rammed and crashed its way through anything that attempted to be at the top.
Comments
Lawrence.com does not necessarily agree with comments posted below - responsibility lies with the relevant user alone. Read our full policy.
gamer (Matt Cox) says…
Honorable Mentions -
Eternal Darkness - Gamecube
God of War - PS2
Katamari Damacy - ps2
espn nfl Series - PS2, Xbox
Burnout 2,3 - PS2, Xbox, Gamecube
toreador (Michael Austin) says…
wow, not a mention of counterstrike at all...
toreador (Michael Austin) says…
or of Everquest? hmm, I wonder about the validity of the list now...
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
those games didn't do what all the others mentioned did -- they didn't redefine. you may argue that counterstrike did, but in the end it is just another way to frag your friends online. hate to be so blunt with it, but that is what it ammounted to. and everquest has easily been usurped by WoW and guild wars. it was too stuck in its standard rpg stuff to be the great of blizzard's baby and arenanet's first entry (which is the leading seller right now i believe).
but i must pick a fight over halo2 making the list. i understand that everyone has opinions, and the right to them, but halo2 is much inferrior to halo1 for many reasons. first, those multiplayer issues were not fixed quickly, it took 6 months to really fix them. then they release new maps and it starts all over again. second, the new engines really aren't that new. sure the graphics got upgraded but the fov is extremely constricted because bungie couldn't seem to get the hardware to do what riddick did. also the physics is only the havok engine (which i don't personally care for) and not nearly as fun as halo1's engine. i mean grenade don't kill vehicles or make them explode. third, the weapons are either too weak or extremely overpowered. there are three weapons in the game that are instantly "fire and forget" weapons (fire and forget it took no skill): rocket launcher and its lock-on, plasma pistol and its 90 degree turns, and the sword. further more the sniper is able to get headshots on demand for a two year-old due to the enormous hit boxes. fourth, there is no server browser to choose games, only the ones bungie wants us to play. fifth, the story isn't what we were marketed. there was absolutely no battle for earth. no conclusion to the game at all. in fact it ends where all the adds said it would start.
sorry to come down hard on that game, but i really wanted it to be great (even more so than mgs2 and we all know how i feel about that title :) ) and it is far from what it should be. better than most fps, yes; better than halo1, never.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
oh, and it is good to be back!
gamer (Matt Cox) says…
toreador -
Rest easy, neither CS nor Everquest were made in this generation.
Everquest - 1999
CS - 2000
The current gen is like two months of 2000 til now.
gamer (Matt Cox) says…
PC's really don't have "generations" so we had to confine it to the traditional console generations...a much more definable measurement.
Personally, I would've had Everquest in there.
gamer (Matt Cox) says…
Supercat - This list isn't necessarily about redefinition...and you're wrong about CS and Everquest...both definitely had a historical impact in gaming.
Everyone- This list is pure opinion anyway. It's not a diagnosis of how important the games were, although that may play a part in our very, very polar opinions.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
i guess i was never really effected by those games then. i did play both. spent plenty of time on cs, not so much in everquest, but neither really had the impact that many of these others have had. i understand they were/are popular, but so is halo2, and i also think it is overrated, obviously (that wasn't a personal attack by the way, just clearing that up if there was a confusion, i still love everyone :) ). in fact i find it hard to really stand out in the fps genre anymore and haven't really been blown away since halo1. sorry for offending any die-hard cs fans. :)
and if i could have had a 4th pick i would have put ninja gaiden up there. i haven't put any time in on god of war, but it is hard to swallow that it is so much greater than gaiden and that dmc3 is harder than gaiden's hardest level (which will no longer be the hardest when black is released, oh blessed day). but i will give credit to god of war for obviously being a great game from all the reports i have heard or read. mgs2 though... :)
Fragmental (Chris Baker) says…
To be honest, perhaps Halo is better than Halo 2. I do feel that Halo 2 had a huge impact on the xbox community, and whether I should have or not, I did consider that when choosing it. Naturally it's all a very tough decision. You could ask which games were most revolutionary, which were most fun, which you spent the most time on, which had the largest impacts on gaming, and you could come up with three different games for each question. (not saying you would, but could)
Certainly there were other games that had much larger impacts on gaming, or started new genre's or redefined current ones, sure. I think I said Halo 2 because of the combination of many things. The agonizing yet exciting waiting game for it's release, playing it on live for the first time, the impressive tie-in to bungie.net, not to mention the huge boost in graphics. But your mostly right, in retrospect I did have a lot more fun with Halo 2. I think what I should have said was "Halo Series" rather than just Halo 2. I could have said the same with "gta iii Series" rather than just San Andrea's to be honest. Plus there were a lot of games that are just as deserving as these. I absolutely loved KOTOR, and I spent more time on Civilization III than nearly any other game during the last 4 years, and part of me even wanted to surprise everyone and pick a real gem like "Beyond Good & Evil", which was sadly ignored by the masses. And of course Resident Evil 4 deserves a mention, but after I beat it, I really didn't go back so it didn't seem as strong of a contender to me as some of the others that held my attention better.
Any way you look at it though, it's extremely difficult to answer a question such as this, as there are so many different ways to look at it. Do you pick the games that changed gaming the most? The games that were purely the most fun? The games that held you captivated the longest? The most anticipated games? Tough call, but certainly all these picks are solid choices, even if we can't all agree on the "best" choices.
Have a great weekend ya'll.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
you are correct fragmental, there are definately lots of criteria to choose from. and i guess i really did go with which ones i had the most fun playing and was most impacted by. i don't see my choices as the best choices, but i do have opinions on the ones that aren't there (*cough*mgs2*cough*) and respect everyone's opinions.
i will give that halo2 was a major game this generation, probably the most anticipated, and had a large impact on the xbox live community. but i lost all my love for that game after a few months playing and listening to a friend on a certain forum rant about the things he doesn't like, which have become my peeves too. i do like how halo2 integrates with b.net, but i don't like how it is unbalanced. i do like the visual upgrades, but i don't like the narrower fov. i do like how weapon abilities better fit the weapon models (i still love the pistol though), but i don't like how the overall weapon set balance drastically changed. i do like midship, but i don't like coag. and yeah, probably mentioning series is better because it then encompasses all the pluses, because remember without halo the big black box would have never gotten off the ground and there would have never been a halo2.
and yes, there are definatley gems out there that will never get mentioned even though they were pretty darn awesome. my picks for the unchoosen would be: mechassault1 -- heralded in every new aspect of live for over a year; oddworld: munch's oddysee and stranger's wrath -- gorgeous and genius gameplay; WoW -- never really played it much, but blizzard is freaking amazing and nothing has stopped this game yet; otagi 1&2 -- before gaiden, before god of war, before devil may cry, there was otagi and it was good (it has visuals on par with gaiden a year before and the second only got better); burnout3 -- yeah; and finally steel battalion -- i mean the game cost more than the system, has a custom controller that comes with pedals, and if you die you lose your save game, it doesn't get much more crazy/hardcore/awesome than that (and i own a copy, so if anyone wants to play it...).
and go hawks this weekend!
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
"and if i could have had a 4th pick i would have put ninja gaiden up there"
In terms of pure action videogames,
Devil May Cry 3 > God of War > Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden was still a really fun game, though. It just can't touch DMC3.
ichikuo (Hanluen Kuo) says…
Does this list further prove that RE4 is the game of this gen?
Discuss.
BobDarkAvenger (anonymous) says…
I'd have to say ICO and Viewtiful Joe both deserve a nod.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
i would like to play those ps2 titles at some point, but i would have to say that for it to get much harder than ninja gaiden's hardest level is almost unbelievable. and now that gaiden black is coming out with 2 new difficulty settings above hardest (i believe it is 2, maybe just one, haven't checked in a while), with new monsters, new ai routines, and a new camera, i would find it hard to be more difficult. but i guess black won't count as this gen...
anyone want to lend me a ps2 so i can play dmc3 or gow?
ichikuo (Hanluen Kuo) says…
Just buy one, they're cheap as hell now.
ichikuo (Hanluen Kuo) says…
I want to ask all the people who commented about EQ being absent.
Do you think EQ is better than WoW? And if you haven't played WoW, just say you haven't played it, no biggie.
I didn't get into CS that much at all. In fact, if you had to ask me, I'd put BF 1942 over CS. Then again, when it comes to FPS's, they're very different on many levels. Back then I was not PC gamer at all, except for space flight sims (X-Wing, Wing Commander, etc.)
I'm pretty sure all of the the people involved with the blog are more console gamers than PC gamers. So the lack of PC games you find on the list shouldn't be surprising at all.
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
My honorable mentions:
God of War
Metroid Prime
Katamari Damacy
the SSX series
Burnout 3
Super Mario Sunshine
Gitaroo Man
the GTA series (way overrated, but still good)
Mercenaries
Prince of Persia
And by the way, if you consider the Dreamcast to be of this generation, then Soul Calibur would EASILY be my #2 behind the MGS games.
Fragmental (Chris Baker) says…
Actually in many ways, I consider myself more of a PC gamer than console gamer. I say this only because when I think about it, I definately spend more time playing PC games than I do with console games. But while I realize that I can spend weeks on end playing a good game of Civilization III, I can't say that it was one of the top three games of the generation. I'm sure I've spent more time playing College Hoops 2k5 than any of the three games that I listed as my top three, but I can't honestly say that it's one of the top games of the generation. I'm just a big college hoops fan (and I loved it's legacy mode). I play PC games a lot though for it's strategy and sim type games that just can't be properly reproduced on a console. Plus every year I have to go back to some of the classics from my young adult years (like X-Com, Castles II, Colonization, Pirates, etc.) which I can't do on the recent consoles, and it's a pain to pull classic console games out of the closet, even though I wouldn't sell them for the world. In fact, I once tried to get an estimate on what my gaming collection would fetch on ebay, and the price went into the multiple thousands, but I consider myself somewhat of a collector when I'm able to afford it. (I recently acquired three old handheld consoles, purely for collecting purposes).
Oh well, call me crazy...
And by the way, as for Dreamcast being part of this generation or not, I'd definately have to throw Soul Calibur into the top 3. Dreamcast was probably my fav console until just a couple years ago... It took awhile for any of the current gen systems to catch up with the DC in my mind. It's demise was such a cryin shame, wasn't it?
JackBurt0n (anonymous) says…
Where is Beyond Good & Evil on those lists???
Please tell me that I'm not the only person that bought that amazing game!
(King Kong is going to be sweet)
-Jack
wbabbit (Will Babbit) says…
Whether or not WoW is better or worse that EQ is not the point in this list, I personally put 100+ days into EQ and am working quickly toward that total for WoW. But EQ was first, and anything that WoW has, was designed off of EQ, yet improved upon. That's the same reason GTA III should have been on the list in place of GTA San Andreas, GTA SA wasn't redefining, it was just improving on the established game. The argument can easily be made that EQ is absolutely nothing like UO (the first wide release of it's kind) but can't really be made that WoW isn't like EQ (though better, obviously).
Fragmental (Chris Baker) says…
Well like what I mentioned earlier. GTA III was certainly more defining, more revolutionary, and had a much bigger impact on gaming than any other GTA game, but GTA: San Andrea's was bigger, had more abilities, options, capabilities, etc. To put it simply, GTA: SA was a better game. And again, the question was what was the "best games of this generation", and I felt that GTA should be represented, and of the three current gen GTA games, SA was the best, hands down. It all depends how you choose to interpret the question. If it were "the most defining or impactful games of this generation", then GTA III would be on there, no doubt.
And for JackBurt0n, I rrreeeaaallllllyyy wanted to put Beyond Good & Evil on there, but I did mention it as one of my top alternatives if you read my first follow-up here. No doubt that it was one of the best games of this generation, easily in the top ten if not top five.
gamer (Matt Cox) says…
regardless, EQ was before this gen, it's not even in the realm of conversation.
Now Jack, BG & E was great, yes, but top three out of hundreds of games from 2001-now is tough.
Oh, Dan I believe you meant Ninja Gaiden>God of War>DMC 3
:D
gamer (Matt Cox) says…
And not to beat the point into the ground, this isn't a list of the "most important" or "most genre-defining" games. These are simply our favs from the current gen.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
i missed these discussions over the summer... :)
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
In retrospect.....I'm not entirely sure I'd have DMC3 on there. I'm finding it hard to think of a better option, though.
deskiedennis (anonymous) says…
Metal Gear Solid 2 is an awful game. Unless you think the creators openly mock it to be ironic.
And Psychonauts is one of my favorites of this generation. The Milkman Conspiracy level is twisted (literally and metaphorically) and hysterical. The dialogue is by far the best I've heard in a game, and that goes a long way to making playing it fun.
deskiedennis (anonymous) says…
My name is Jack Burton. If my name sounds familiar, it's because Darkstarr, the man who beat the snot out of me in the national halo tourney, is on the Halo 2 special features DVD. And he references it on camera.
gamer (Matt Cox) says…
Kuo-
Wow, Res 4 made four of our lists. Not only is it still leading the pack for THIS year's GOTY, but it might just be in the running for best console game of this gen. It was soooo complete. More than God of War. More than Ninja Gaiden. More than any DMC or MGS...
yeah.
deskiedennis (anonymous) says…
Matt, what do you mean when you say Resident Evil 4 is "complete"? (I'm not saying I disagree, I was just wondering if you could expand on what you mean.)
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
i wish i could have played that game...
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
"It was soooo complete. More than God of War. More than Ninja Gaiden. More than any DMC or MGS..."
Totally gotta disagree with you on that one. While it WAS amazing, and probably makes my top 15 games of all time list, the second disc was a little lower in quality than the first. That weird island/facility with all the military-esque guys wasn't nearly as good as the village or the castle.
MGS2 however, is the most 'complete' and fully realized game ever made, in my opinion.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
blood pressure rizing...
vision growing dim...
that game, i just cannot ever imagine a "game" that is so mindless and boring being called complete. i'm referring to mgs2 for those who don't know.
and no, halo1 is not my most complete game ever. i haven't seen one yet that is totally complete.
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
Read this analysis of the ending of the game and try to tell me it's "mindless".......
http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/index.html
trevanon (anonymous) says…
Ok, let me just say that, believe it or not, I actually possess a college level vocabulary and am fully capable of proper punctuation. I say this because of the random "?" and commas that are peppered throughout my entry. I'm both shocked and appalled.
Also, I am equally horrified by the continued MGS2 debacle. Dan, I respect your opinion and I read the final summary link you posted. It's nice expostition, but any plot that fails to explain itself within it's own self-contained narrative fails on a basic storytelling level.
In short, the plot is weak. Ghosts under the White House? An imaginary colonel? Raiden=gamer? Vampires? A fat man on Rollerblades? I"ll pass on all fronts.
Couple that with the simplistic design of the Big Shell, weak bosses/boss battles, and a shorter play time than its PS1 predecessor and you've got one word: disappointment.
That being said, the first hour on the tanker (and the final cinematic before you play as Blondie) is incredible.
I'm climbing down from my soapbox now. This is the last time I will ever reference that game unless I have to defend my aformentioned comments.
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
Just to clear some basic things up:
1.) The Patriots are not "ghosts under the White House", or anything close to that. They're a sophisticated A.I. system.
2.) The colonel is not imaginary. He's basically an A.I. mouthpiece for the Patriots. They chose the image of Colonel Campbell because they knew Raiden would trust it, considering he had read so much about the Shadow Moses incident.
3.) As for Raiden = gamer, I'm not sure what you mean. Raiden was mainly used to serve as a naive pawn for the Patriots to manipulate. They needed to see if they still had the power to control society through misinformation and brainwashing, so they tested the S3 Plan with Raiden (the Selection for Societal Sanity plan).
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
Oh, and Trevor....you mentioned Vampires and a fat guy on rollerblades being ridiculous. For comparisons sake (assuming you liked MGS and MGS3, that is), let's look at some of the other bosses in the series:
- A guy that controls bees. The bees can form tommy guns and grenades. He also spits homing "bullet bees" out of his mouth.
- A 100-year old dead sniper who comes to life because of moss growing in his body.
- A ghost who summons the spirits of the dead
- A psycho in a gas mask that can make things fly around the room and also knows what videogames you like to play.
- A former dead war partner who comes back to life as a robot ninja.
See, everyone bashes MGS2 for being ridiculous, but if you look at the (widely loved) other two games, you'll see that they're just as goofy. That's part of what makes Metal Gear what it is.
trevanon (anonymous) says…
Valid points, Den. The difference between the bosses you just referenced and the bosses I brought into question lies in originality.
The battles with The Sorrow and The Pain are both pretty weak, but the combat between Mantis, The End, and Ninja were all engaging and, at the very least, entertaining. I can't say that for Fat Man or Vamp.
In response to your other entry:
1. Colonel: "Over the past two hundred years -- A kind of consciousness formed layer by layer in the crucible of the White House.
It's not unlike the way life started in the oceans four billion years ago."
The Patriots are two hundred years gone. They're ghosts. They may be a highly advanced A.I. framework, but they're ghosts nonetheless. I say this simply because A.I. didn't exist 200 hundred years ago.
2. Otacon: "The Colonel probably isn't GW per se. GW was most likely stimulating cortical activity in the dormant part of your brain
through signal manipulation of your own nanomachines.
The Colonel is in part your own creation, cobbled together from expectations and experience..."
Raiden imagined the Colonel. He's a figment of his own mind made real by nanomachines in the dormant part of his brain.
3. The Big Shell mission is Raiden's first one-man combat mission. In preparation he went under VR training that included the Fox Hound mission from MGS1 (if I'm not mistaken, he mentions it himself). A player familiar with the first game, going into a crisis scenario unarmed with no prior experience in this new environment. He is basically in the same position as a fan of MGS1 playing the sequel for the first time. Forced to deal with some unfamiliar new gameplay mechanics, a new main character, and environment they are unprepared to face.
deskiedennis (anonymous) says…
"Read this analysis of the ending of the game and try to tell me it's "mindless".......
http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/index.html"
How does reading an analysis of the game tell us that it isn't mindless? I think playing it should do that.
The Burnout Revenge Demo is also one of the better games out there.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
okay dan, i'll let off the mgs2 thing. i wasn't trying to start a fight, seriously. i can appreciate that there may be some hidden meanings and deaper points in the convoluted plot, just like there was with mgs on ps1 (the ending being a perfect example). my biggest gripe was that it felt like such a let down after i had so much fun with mgs1. that is my point, and i never meant to hurt anyones feelings.
i mean shoot, there are plenty of things people could say about my favorite games. halo - repetition like a broken record, guild wars - grinding and farming just like everything else with a very low level cap, ninja gaiden - camera of the devil, otagi - really bizarre control scheme and an even more rediculous plot than mgs2 possibly, mechassault - boring single player and repetitive multiplayer, mechassault2 - unbelievably short single player (really can't get much shorter than that, i'm serious) coupled with a multiplayer that doesn't really go any deeper than the first did and the new armor for the mechs is a total dissaster and the conquest mode failed, oddworld stranger's wrath - not long enough first part of single player and no multiplayer which was sorely missed, chrome - strangest physics ever (humans behave like 1lb dolls when dead but cars stick to ground and boxes don't move, go figure), worms armagedon - actually i can't find much wrong with this game.
so yeah, feel free to pick on any of those if you want. :)
Ryckert (Dan Ryckert) says…
Hey.....there's nothing wrong with Worms Armageddon (or World Party for that matter). Those games are just plain fun.
And don't worry about bashing MGS2, everyone does it (and for good reason, a lot of the time). Hell, I remember a few months after it came out, me and Kuo had a huge conversation where we both realized we hated the game for many reasons. I didn't start to change my tune until about my third or fourth time through, when I pieced everything together and realized how much better the story was than I gave it credit for.
That's why I spend so much time defending the game. It's not that I'm offended or I'm trying to "start a fight" or anything....it's the simple fact that there's a lot of underappreciated aspects to Sons of Liberty that people don't realize.
Bash away - I realize I'm in the minority on this one.
Supercat1 (Andrew Monshizadeh) says…
actually, yes there are problems with worms armagedon and world party -- they have not been rereleased and updated for hdtv for this generation hardware. but other than that, there are no problems with them. speaking of that, anyone up for some worms anytime?
deskiedennis (anonymous) says…
And Trevan's logical analyzation and presentation of evidence goes unnoticed. Or ignored to avoid further embarrassment of a game that I now love upon completing it for the 7th time.