Posted
by Jill Ensley
February 18, 2007 at 9:45 p.m.
Lawrence's Identity Crisis
Allllright, I had another entry uploaded and ready to go, but then I saw [this][1] in the paper today, I had to say something. My friend Kim and I spent damn near our entire dinner hour talking about the num-dumbiness of some of the ideas and notions around these half-baked concepts.First of all, what the hell makes anyone think that a grocery store, vegetarian, "New York Style" or otherwise, will work in the Casbah's space. What, just because Daddy owns the building and you want to be able to buy overpriced hummus downtown, you think that's enough research? What about those people who eat meat or don't have that much money? Or do studies show that meat-eaters dwell only on the Westside with the rich folk? And speaking of research, "All the people who live in downtown, work in downtown..." says Casey Millstein, one of the three young "entrepreneurs" blindly charging ahead with this venture. Really? Is that so? Got some numbers on this? And a vegetarian deli counter...isn't that kind of an oxymoron? You know, just because Lawrence is a bit granola, doesn't make it San Francisco. OR New York.As my friend Kim put it, "Why can't Lawrence just BE Lawrence?" Why are we constantly looking to other towns for ideas. All too often these towns are much, much bigger or aren't surrounded by prairie. Like it or not, not being around a large body of water, does have an affect.The same thing goes for the arts community and those damn lofts. Why do we think we're a big city already? It's okay, Lawrence. It really is. You don't have to have the same things that New York and San Francisco do. There's time to play with the big kids later. Right now, we have some growing up to do. And part of that means accepting what we are and building on that.A downtown grocery store is a damn fine idea. I've been wanting one the whole time I've lived here (coughTraderJoescough). But I'm sorry, an over-priced vegetarian shop isn't going to cut it and neither is an indoor market. We have the Farmer's Market and we can't lose that. It seems to me, the only thing that will work, right now, is a larger building with available parking one-two streets off Massachusetts, one that caters to people with lower incomes than we all-too-often seem to cater to. And with that, can someone tell me how long Wild Oats was at the building at the corner of 10th and Vermont and why they closed. Because THAT, my friends is where Trader Joe's should be, cheap, granola-friendly Trader Joe's. [1]: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/feb/18/shopping_supermarket/?city_local
and 24 others
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godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
p.s. those people commenting over at the L-J World are crazy.
ca-raaaaay-zeeee.
i hope one of them sees this and I get an old fashioned lynchin'.
Weezy_Jefferson (anonymous) says…
If another grocery store is destined to pop up, it should happen in North Lawrence, where it's actually needed.
As for Wild Oats, I heard that they left Lawrence because they were angry they weren't stealing all the clientele from The Merc. They said something like, "Lawrence isn't ready for us" and pulled up their tent stakes.
Oh, man, don't even get me started about the LJ-World reader-reaction knuckle draggers. Where's my drink?
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
Hey, I can't walk to North Lawrence for milk, yo. You should be catering to MY needs.
Well, Lawrence wasn't ready for their overpriced shit. So, NYAH, Wild Oats. Take THAT.
And I already carried my carcass down to the Pig for Chinese New Year....so I've already had my drink(s). Now it's time for as much Grapes of Wrath as I can possibly stay awake for.
Joel (Joel Mathis) says…
I wasn't here during that time, but didn't the Wild Oats fail in part because ever-loyal Lawrencians were afraid it would kill off the Merc? I always understood that the town literally wasn't big enough for the two of them.
liz (Liz Weslander) says…
I was happy to hear about the market. Yes, a Trader Joe's would be nice. Yes, we need a good butcher/meat market (and a wine shop/liquor store) downtown, but I'm just glad there's going to be somewhere downtown to get basic provisions.
I was actually downtown just the other day and realized we had no blak beans for dinner. I would have paid $1.29 for those black beans in a heartbeat if it meant I didn't have to go to Dillons at 5:30 on a weeknight (even if I could have gotten beans for 79 cents there)
The small neighborhood organic market works well in town more comparable to Lawrence, like Eugene and Ann Arbor. I hope it work here.
ladylaw (Terry Bush) says…
This qualifies as 4th hand gossip and nothing more, but I heard several people passing along the rumor that it was due to a high theft ratio (suspected of the employees). I loved it, because I didn't have to be part of the "in" crowd to get good service there. And I 2nd (or 3rd) a Trader Joe's. The Lawrence allergy to chain stores makes sense to me in my head, but my wallet tells me to listen to reason: idealism doesn't always need to come at a 100% mark-up rate! Any store where people have to pay more then 10% for a staple is not going to make it, let alone paying more of a mark-up for luxery items. There are not that many rich hippies in town.
chrysanthalbee (chrys anthalbee) says…
weezy got it right: "If another grocery store is destined to pop up, it should happen in North Lawrence, where it's actually needed."
and yeah.. that would be catering to MY needs.
altarego (anonymous) says…
I think I know where downtown is, but what is this _North Lawrence_?
Wait.
Believe me, I have an even stupider question. Who walks to the grocery? Maybe I'm unusual, but when we go to the store we end up with a cart load of stuff that I'm not about to carry anywhere.
I like Checkers, meself. People downtown and on the Eastside live closer than I do, so my sympathy clings to me like the glue. Although, yeah, If I need an onyawn or jug milk, I do have 3 (4 if anybody seriously considers the $murk$) )choices within a couple few miles, so there is that. Come to think, if the Man has his sway, The closest store to my house will be a walmart!! i have never walked to a walmart. i will have to do this once for my health (what don't kill you makes you stronger), to support slave labor in China, and to celebrate the latest in produce presentation technologies.
And lordy on the comment section over at LJW! If anyone would like to do me a favor and copy/paste my comment over and over through out the day, and possibly some tomorrow, then I won't have to do it myself. I'm ashamed that I actually have other things to do and think about.
altheasus (Althea Schnacke) says…
My girlfriend and I were walking past Fields yesterday, and I actually said "That would be a good place for a grocery store". Two minutes later, we passed a newspaper box with the story.
I would love a downtown grocery, but I wouldn't do my primary shopping there, much like I don't do my primary shopping at the Merc. Too expensive. If I needed a gallon of milk and cheetos and I just happened to be downtown, I'd probably stop in. I would much rather see a good general grocery store go up in North Lawrence rather than a high dollar convenience store go downtown.
lazz (anonymous) says…
Your enthusiam is infectious, Godjilla. Or something is.
Why the hell do you feel the need to slam some local folks who want to open a vegetarian shop where the Casbah used to be? What's it to you? And just what in blue blazes do the lofts have to do with anything, other than the limits of your rhetorical and analytical capabilities?
Quoting: "Got some numbers on this?"
Quoting: "overpriced hummus'
Quoting: "an over-priced vegetarian shop"
Asking: Got some numbers on this? They showed you their menus and prices, did they? Yep, you're all about research, when it comes to somebody else; for yourself, you are content to spout off and piss on somebody else's dreams and hard work.
At least these folks are doing something constructive. And, equally as attractive as the fact that downtown will have a grocery (prices to be determined...) is the fact that more young entrepreneurs are making their stand here. We have to have the constant influx of young energy to make this town work, and it seems that the boom (and high rent and taxes) of the past 10 years might have thwarted lots of dreams and efforts by young businesspeople - most recently, perhaps, the Olive Gallery.
Well, I hate to yet again by the old square, but I think I'll happy that somebody is trying to make a go of a vegetarian market downtown. I think I'll do my best to support them.
And yes, I'm picking a fight here, and maybe I'll be joined here by others who are sick of the carping and second-guessing whenever anybody invests more than the price of a few parking meter dimes to make downtown work...
lori (anonymous) says…
We walk or ride our bikes quite often to the downtown area in the warm weather months; we have often wished for a small grocery store downtown that sells the basics. Actually, I would prefer one more easterly, say, right around the NY school area, but I dont think that is going to happen any time soon.
I won't exclusively shop there, but if I can get my bread at Wheatfields, my cheese and meat for sammies at Round Corner, and all I need is a carton of eggs or some milk, I'm going to be able to finish my shopping downtown, instead of riding bikes home and then going back out (in the car or bike) to Dillons. It's not all going to happen in one trip because I'm not going to drag my kids on their bikes, schlepping their library books and swimming gear all the way over to Dillons--it's not a very safe bike riding environment, especially for kids. But if the store is right there downtown, I'd hit it for lots of small items; I'll pay a little more for the convience of not having to drive out of my way to dillons.
So, yeah, I'm happy about at grocery store going in downtown. It's a long time overdue.
I have been here long enough to remember Wild Oats--my impression is thesame as Joel's--it went out of business because it couldn't put the Merc out of business, and Lawrence wasn't big enough to support two such stores.
I haven't been here quite long enough to remember when the Merc was downtown--that's a while before my time--but I have been wishing for a long time that the merc open some sort of satallite store out my way--downtown, or on the east side--heck even in North Lawrence it'd be closer to me than it is now. But someone beat them to it.
I hope these three find their downtown grocery is successful endeavor. I wish them well.
OhioJayhawk (anonymous) says…
With all due respect, Trader Joes ain't gonna happen in Lawrence. I live in a city of 1 million+ human beings (Cleveland) and we have exactly two Trader Joes locations. Both are at at ultra-upscale malls that attract suburbanites with six-figure incomes.
It's all about demographics and neither downtown (or north Lawrence) have the numbers in terms of either people or income to support any "corporate" grocery. Be happy with what you get -- vegetarian, vegan, puritan, alien or otherwise -- and hope it survives.
BTW, I remember Wild Oats well. My main impression, from the day it opened, was that it was extraordinarily dirty, poorly managed, staffed by surly snobs, and the so-called organic produce and meats sucked.
Hope the new venture is better...and something is better than nothing.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
Hey lazz, last time I checked, I wasn't the one opening a store on shaky foundations. Soooo, research, yeah mine doesn't seem to be quite as important. Maybe I'm just jealous because my daddy can't cater to my whims. That, or it just doesn't seem like they've thought this through, OR are trying to include a broad demographic. Maybe that's why. And we can argue about the constructiveness of this venture if you'd like.
Hey, I'll probably pop my head in, see what it's like. Maybe I'll eat my words. But based on the words from the horse's mouth, I don't exactly think it's the best idea. In reality, I'd be more inclined to support a North Lawrence grocery (something like Checkers) than one where I can walk my happy ass down and get a quart of organic milk for $2.50.
MyName (anonymous) says…
I think we do need a grocery store to serve customers in North and East Lawrence, I currently would rather drive to 6th St. HyVee than shop at Dillon's on Mass, and I live at around 13th and Kentucky. OTOH, I don't usually make more than 1 or 2 trips a week to a grocer, and then I usually load up for a week's worth of food. So I don't know that the new store will supplant HyVee for most of my groceries.
And I have the same problem with alot of the stuff that goes on in town: why does Lawrence keep trying to be Austin, or San Fransisco? OTOH, maybe it's all the crazies on the ljworld.com board that are holding us back!
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
OhioJayhawk, St. Louis has four. I'm going to steal one of theirs in the middle of the night. And I know it probably won't happen, but dammit if a girl can't dream.
I never thought Wild Oats was dirty or that the workers were snobby, though I do feel the oh-so-beloved Merc's employees could use an adjustment here and there. But, I don't shop there anyway. Can't afford it. Couldn't really afford Wild Oats either. Probably won't be able to afford this new one as well. Checkers, our relationship is safe.
And kids, don't get me wrong. I'm not all about the hate. I hope they do find success. I just find it rather eye-rolling the statements and notion that THIS is just what downtown needs.
altarego, nice comment. I'd post it over there, but those people...they scare me. You're better off shouting random words.
JELL-O!
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
Oh, and p.s. lazz, the lofts have everything to do with it. It was another bad idea aimed at people with more money than the average joe, another attempt to make Lawrence into something it isn't. I don't now, maybe my "research" is off, are they all rented out yet?
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
And just so I can have the most comments on my own blog, I am now heading to Topeka...a town with 3247389 more problems than Lawrence. I should feel renewed when I get back.
NUNS!
Roadkill_Rob (anonymous) says…
What downtown needs is a late night diner and a marketplace w/ a good butcher, sells wine and Pabst Blue Ribbon (among other spirits), have a deli, and sells toilet paper.
The diner should go on Mass St. and the market should go at either 11th and Vermont or 8th-9th and New Hamshire to accomodate parking. This should also cater to all walks of life and not just expensive health food like Wild Oats.
North Lawrence needs a grocery store but the fact that there used be one there that went out of business is not helping its chances.
altheasus (Althea Schnacke) says…
One of the problems with any grocery store downtown is that they can't sell alcohol. Remember, in Kansas grocery stores can only sell 3.2 beer (and wine), no hard liquor at all. There would have to be completely different business entity for a store to sell alcohol.
TheEleventhStephanie (anonymous) says…
Just because their dad owns the building doesn't mean he's renting it to them for free. And if he is, it's good to see a dad that believes in his kids enough to do so. Free rent also doesn't mean that they won't be on their feet for 10 or 12 hours a day busting their butts to make their business work.
I'll support just about anyone who is willing to try putting a new business in our dying downtown. No, one store won't save downtown, but if one store succeeds others may be encouraged to try.
Jilla, how can you badmouth it before it even opens? Maybe it WON'T be expensive, ya considered that? Why don't you at least wait until they open before you decide how much it sucks? All you have to go on right now is "vegetarian" and "grocery store." Doesn't really tell you much about the venture, does it? While I agree it would be nice if they had a whole slew of offerings, meat included, they've got to start somewhere. They sell meat at Local Burger--just around the corner. I think health codes are easier to keep up in a vegetarian place anyway, and that might be part of their rationale.
As Lazz said "We have to have the constant influx of young energy to make this town work." If new entrepreneurs don't dive in, our downtown will shrivel up and die just like almost every other small town in the U.S.
OtherJoel (anonymous) says…
"All the people who live in downtown, work in downtown..."
What a great quote. I firmly believe that anytime someone says "All...," there's a good chance they're full of shit, regardless of context.
Keith (anonymous) says…
"All the people who live in downtown, work in downtown and people who live in eastern Lawrence were really our focus. We wanted someplace that they could go without getting in the car."
I guess I'm the only one not reading this sentence as a statement that everyone who works in downtown lives in downtown. I think she meant it more as a series of 3 groups they want to market to. All the people who work downtown, all the people who live downtown, etc.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
EleventhStephanie, read the article, then bust my chops, 'kay? And it doesn't matter how much I say it's just my opinion or that I WILL give them a try or that I wish them success, which, I believe, I just did not too long ago....sometimes, I'm not the one who focuses on perceived negativity. Besides, common sense tells me that "New York Style" and "vegetarian deli" mean I won't be buying cheap T.P. there.
Roadkill_Rob, yeah, I was excited when I heard that Hayes was coming to down, then realized they were going to be at 15th and Kasold. That would have been a great downtown diner.
OtherJoel, broad sweeping statements are all the rage.
You're all assholes.
Keith, I guess it could be read that way, but I'm of the opinion that they think there are a crap-ton of people living downtown. Are there? I don't know. Maybe. It also depends on what your definition of "downtown" is. But, the fact that they think that when East Lawrencians clamor for a closer grocery store that the answer is small, very likely pricey, vegetarian goods, then...well...I'm tired of saying it. Demographics, baby, demographics. Maybe I'm completely talking out of my ass and that $25,000 study went toward pollsters going door to door east of Mass. and asking people's income levels and what they look for in grocery needs. Maybe so, maybe so.
Now I have to go rummage through a dumpster because I threw away a UPC code I need for a rebate. Such is my Monday night activity.
liz (Liz Weslander) says…
I'm under the impression that the Millstein family owns some of the most successful and well loved buildings/businesses downtown, and probably have a good idea of how many people "live in downtown, work in downtown and... live in eastern Lawrence."
No research to back this up, but of the 30 or so people I know who own homes in east Lawrence, I can see all of them shopping occasionally at a small market downtown. And of the 100s of families whose kids are regularly at the Arts Center for hour long classes and lessons (and whose parents therefore have an hour to kill downtown), I imagine many of them would use the market occasionally. And yes, I do know for a fact that many people work downtown, and that many of them eat lunch out, and probably will appreciate a new lunch spot.
It's not the grocery store that you want, but it's not a ludricrous a idea.
mitzibel (Misty Nuckolls) says…
Luckily, we here in Far-East Lawrence don't have to worry about such trivialities. We are lucky enough to have everything we need in one convenient, localized location: the bail bondsman, the payday loans, the liquor store, the porn rental place, and the convenience store that sells brass knuckles and crack pipes alongside fried chicken and catfish. Am I going to be able to buy a three-foot glass bong , a two piece and a biscuit, and "Night Love"-scented incense at this fancy-schmancy new grocery store? I think not.
RubyVroom (Chala Roberts-Fife) says…
I am always amazed to hear people say that they think the Merc employees are snobby. My husband and I shop there once a week and we have never had a bad experience, nor have any of our friends who shop there with varying frequency.
Also, I don't understand comments such as Ladylaw's about having to "be part of the "in" crowd to get good service there." No one that I know has ever felt judged by shopping at the Merc, whether they go there once in a while or all the time.
altheasus (Althea Schnacke) says…
I've had mixed experiences with Merc employees (while they're at work, outside of work is a different issue (ususally drunk and naked on their part)). I had a nice chat with Mike Rundle about plastic bags, but I've also had employees that wouldn't make eye contact or say anything more than the total. The perception is because its a kinda crunchy store, the employees are going to be snobs, when really, they're no different than a surly cashier at a regular grocery store.
agrabass (anonymous) says…
Wow Godjilla way to take that wooden spoon & stir it up. Congrats!
So Merc employees are a little (no alot) on the east coast side of friendliness. They will help you just be very staightforward or they don't get it.
Example:
Customer 10759, "Hi do you carry all natural oatmeal soap? My kids have the chicken pox & are itching like crazy."
Merc Clerk,- "Yah we have that."
Pause.
Wait.
Sigh. 22 seconds later.
Customer 10759, Great can you point me in the direction of where this soap is?"
Merc Clerk- 10 seconds later, lade back, strolls to the main isle in front of the check out area, pulls up his saggy pants, & points. "it is right down the isle before the wooden shelf with soaps on it."
Customer 10759...my bad for not being more specicfic. Can you please show me where it is, exactly?
Maybe they watch an East Coast training video to show how to deliver great customer service.
Anyway, they aren't snobby, just busy...working on thier designer line of hemp sandles.
God, give them a break.
agrabass (anonymous) says…
"God, give them a break."
Not you Godjilla specifically. I was simply asking the heavens to open up, and improve customer service skills @ the Merc...unless I show up with my canvas grocery bag which lets them know I am a member of the secret granola society.
lori (anonymous) says…
Misty--Tim VH once wrote a haiku on Leslie's old blog about that mall--he christened it "the Vice Mall."
That's the only name I can think of it as, now. If something wholesome moved in there, I would be so disappointed.
TheEleventhStephanie (anonymous) says…
I'm gonna open up a strip mall church in that mall at 19th and Haskell.
Just curious, has anyone ever eaten at the restaurant in there?
Reality4Real (anonymous) says…
SWEET...a market downtown. I think it's great, hey and only GOD knows what will happen. So Jill you and your friend Kim should do something else with your time, maybe you should think about developing on the west part of town. There is still a fifteen minute stretch to Topeka.
Hey Lawrence should be building up, not out. And people should be supporting smaller community networks, where you don't have to depend on a car. Oh, and Lawrence is Lawrence....are you even from here, because it sounds like you are the one impossing bigger cities on this liberal Kansas town. I don't think any of the local people want to see Lawrence grow. Oh and I love Trader Joes, it would compete with the Merc.
I lived downtown and the whole year I was wishing there was a small corner market, so I could walk there and get a couple eggs, or a soda....not to pretend I live in the lower eastside of NY.
Now I just want to move back downtown..so I can go to this store everyday. ;-)
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
Hey, nice name. And when you can form a coherent sentence/thought, I'll respond "4Real". For now, let's just play along and say that I AM from around these parts and I'm not sure what's wrong with a couple of friends reading the paper and discussing over dinner. I don't know, maybe my delusions aren't your delusions. Enjoy your expensive very non-NYC eggs and meatless deli items. double :)
agrabass, thank you, thank you. I knew this'd get 'em all riled up. We were trying to think of what would really piss Lawrencians off the other day and it's always either some perceived Merc-bashing or general Lawrence-bashing. This is a broad statement, so beware, but I've never lived in a town that gets so bent out of shape at the slightest criticism.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think ALL Merc employees are jerks. Frankly, I don't shop there often and I probably look like I don't. Maybe they see that look in my eye, that one of "they want how much, for WHAT?" Not necessarily East Coast, since I tend to get along with those types. If we're going to stereotype, let's head West.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
Oh, and p.s. Dear God, I was wondering if you would tell me when the potholes will be filled in....you know, since you got that big finger on the pulse of L-town. Thanks. You're a peach.
Joel (Joel Mathis) says…
Dear Jill:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/feb...
I'll skip the blasphemous jokes.
altarego (anonymous) says…
Holy cripes. The blog chick snaps her fingers, and the omnipotent one jumps. Is there something going on? I can sense these things.
There. I likes a little light blasphemy in the mornning.
Joel (Joel Mathis) says…
Oh, I'm not REALLY omnipotent. But I thank you for the compliment.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
CLAP!!!
edie_ (anonymous) says…
Okay, I can see where you are coming from on this because I can't stand the new downtown. However out of all things that could go in the Casbah building, I'm fairly excited that a small veggie vendor would go there. I'm also confused about why everyone's freaking out that there's no meat in the deli. Have you ever been to a butcher shop? There's not usually much of a produce section. Nor is there a vegan buffet at the meat and cheese shop. I'm okay with all this.
I'm wishing that the fact that the owners don't have rent to pay means that the prices could be affordable. Somehow I don't think that's going to be the case, and that's pretty irritating. But I've resigned myself to the fact that in my tax bracket I don't get to buy hoity toity groceries anyway. Usually, even in expensive places am able to afford some food. I get my items from the poor people's bulk section and get my own raw produce. I can make my own dinner at home...I don't need to buy pricey pre-packaged Thai dinners or gourmet chutneys or organic pickled ginger. I don't buy saffron threads. Sure every now and then I'll splurge for something adventurous if I'm somehow flush and I get struck by some bizarre culinary lightening bolt once every eon. When that hits I'm spending more than I can afford whether I'm at the Trader Joe's, Checker's or the new downtown trustafarian grocery store. I imagine it's true that the grocery will compete with the farmer's market, but if they are worth supporting at all, their vegetables will COME from the farmer's market.
I'd prefer that they use the existing space in downtown for a local vendor rather than bulldozing a downtown lot for a Trader Joe's. I am concerned that the city will think that this somehow solves the affordable grocery problem for east or north Lawrence. Hello, we basically need a small scale Food 4 Less anywhere east of Connecticut. But at this point I'm driving across town every time I want to eat a piece of fruit, so that downtown can be occupied by "indy" boutiques where they sell size one and a half neon leggings, ripped sweatshirts and headbands for $89...on sale.
trailer (anonymous) says…
Godjilla: Hobbs Taylor is a condo building where people are actually buying the spaces-- not renting as you wrote.
Trader Joe's probably will never come to KS because of our liquor laws from the 1890s.
Why say "Lawrence should be itself" and then suggest to bring in a big chain? A local market/deli is a lot more lawrence style than what you're suggesting.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
Oh man! I have a hotline to GOD.
Dear God, please smite the person above. Nothin' serious, just maybe a 5-minute itch right on their peehole as they're talking to a pretty lass or lad.
Trailer, you still didn't answer my question...so are all the units sold? sold sold sold.
And God knows (I asked) that laws never change or there's no way around them. Gee whiz.
Yeeeeah, I wouldn't really call Trader Joe's a big chain. But you're right, maybe a Larryville store would put them over the top and they'd start acting all Wal-mart. And sugarbumps, this "Lawrence style" thing, I guess it's different for all types a-folks.
And ah been readin' too much Steinbeck.
rednekbuddha (Kelly Powell) says…
my concern is over trying to turn that space into a grocery store of any kind....the logistics of trying to have the proper floor plan and space for storage and proper food handling will be a nightmare.....ask anybody who has worked at restaraunts downtown in one of those poorly converted ancient buildings that are held together by old grease and mouse turds...but hey, if they sell my pickles on consignment, I'll support them....and beef jerky is a vegatable, right?
TheEleventhStephanie (anonymous) says…
....the logistics of trying to have the proper floor plan and space for storage and proper food handling will be a nightmare.....
Naw, it won't. There was a restaurant in there for years. Kitchen area with fridges, etc are downstairs. The back of the main floor is still plumbed for sinks, etc.
liz (Liz Weslander) says…
On the lofts, most of the living space is sold. The commercial space is suffering.
According to a January 2 ljworld article the Hobbs Taylor Loft have:
"32 loft-style condominiums, of which only one remains on the open market.
¢ 22,000 square feet of office space on the second floor of both lofts buildings. About half is occupied by three tenants: Dan Sabatini's architecture firm, which designed the lofts; Harris Construction Co. Inc., which developed and built the project; and Lindquist & Craig Hotels & Resorts. The remainder is available for lease.
¢ Commercial space at street level. Capital City Bank is using about 7,600 square feet in the lofts' southern building, leaving about 10,000 square feet available for retailers. There are three entrances to the space: one off the lobby and two off New Hampshire Street."
The full story is here:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/jan...
trailer (anonymous) says…
What is wrong with building upscale condos in downtown lawrence? Parking lots are better? I'd love to see apartments/condos fill every single parking lot. I only use the bus and live downtown so I couldn't care less if you have to walk a couple blocks.
Downtown Lawrence has the potential to be something phenomenonal, but there must be people willing to try new things and landlords willing to give them a try. I'm not a huge fan of creating an organic market, but I will use it. If the deli part has good service/food it will be a MAJOR hit as a lunch spot. Something like Garrett's Corner Market was in River Market...
I heard from someone that the Casbah space was $5000 a month in rent? It's no wonder so many things close. Does anyone have any info on a vacant storefront and how much they rent for? It makes me sad to see so much stuff go under. I want to know when the porno end...er...American Apparel will join the Mass Street ranks.
Weezy_Jefferson (anonymous) says…
"Sugarbumps"!
Tee-hee. I love Jill.
trailer (anonymous) says…
oh...godjilla...trader joe's has over 270 stores, billions in sales every year and is connected to aldi stores. You can use google to figure this sort of thing out before writing things/replying.
rednekbuddha (Kelly Powell) says…
with fridges? For even a small grocery type store you will need larger facilities then that...
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
That's what I love about Lawrence, people will go on and on about supporting local businesses, even if that business is expensive and doomed to fail. WHICH, by the way, and PLEASE pay attention here, I'm not (at least entirely) saying that's what this is. But, if this "vegetarian deli"/market thing has good prices, good service, and good selection, we'll see. Frankly, I'm putting what little money I have on only one of those qualifications being fulfilled. As it SEEMS (keyword) now, I might as well do my shopping at Au Marche...which, ain't gonna happen.
It's the same with blogs, and anything really. And I'm sure it's not just Lawrence, but America. We're constantly searching for the Next Big Thing. We get something and glom all over it because it's new and different and then, because that's probably all it had going for it, it fades away. I see it with the blogs. It's hard to keep you guys entertained.
That said, I really don't get it sometimes. For this being a self-proclaimed open-minded town, people sure don't like it when you express your opinions. I probably can't step foot in The Merc now without being stoned.
If anything, I'm helping these kids out. Look up, 48 comments of free community-based research. Shove that in your tofu hole.
trailer, I'm sorry, I STILL don't see 270 stores and a connection with Aldi (for fucks sake, ALDI) making Trader Joe's a Big Mean Corporation. But thanks for the tip. I've heard about this....goo-gle. I shall try it. We'll have to disagree about the image that big, upscale condos projects on a downtown skyline. Especially since my dinner at a certain local restaurant tonight was tainted because prices were raised nearly $1.50 each plate. I guess that's not their fault though...maybe if downtown rents were regulated. Hell, I don't know. I only know that by the time I leave here, I might not be able to afford anything downtown.
Wanna buy some art?
Plasma?
Kidney?
Maybe a combination of all three?
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
AND, The Casbah. People are going off about supporting local businesses, but did you support that one, or did you feel like it had its chance. Yeah, it was pretty pricey, as far as some of those items go. But she probably had a huge rent bill, as someone stated.
Trailer, did you support that store? Did you go in there and see her face those last few days. I'm sure I don't have the whole story, but there you go. She looked damn sad and we took it for granted because it wasn't new and different anymore. We'll support the local business, talk high-n-mighty about it, when it piques our interest. With ALL due respect, and seriously, no negativity...I give this venture a short time before the novelty wears off and you all go back to Dillon's, Checkers, or Hy-Vee. Because in the end, it's about money first and convenience second. Maybe there's a bit of advice there....or if you're the ignoring type, maybe I'm just a jerkwad.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
liz, thank you for the info.
davisnin (anonymous) says…
Rent downtown is super high because almost all the space is controlled by only a few developers. The same ones that own most of the land in and around Lawrence. Its an oligopoly(I like this word).
joe_cocker_spaniel (anonymous) says…
In these past couple years I've witnessed this town suffer from a serious bout of Boulderitis... seriously Lawrence, you are a diamond in the rough, but that doesn't make you exempt from criticism. "we're liberal and we know it..." i am so tired of the yuppie mentality running the culture of this town, as if the merc parking lot (half SUVs) is a true representation of our demographic... and gawd end the coexist bumper stickers and the high-falutin' merc t shirts and be liberal in something more than just name. oh yeah, and please foster some outspoken and creative high school aged kids again, rather than a bunch of turds who think drugs, birkenstocks and wak fest somehow suffice as "radical" ... i say this coming fresh out of lawrence high school myself. ahh please lawrence don't let your reputation precede your magic.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
Dear God,
You are always, I mean ALWAYS entertaining.
..
ladylaw (Terry Bush) says…
You know jilla, you raise an interesting point (to me at least), on being open to criticism or tolerating opposite view points.
I am no longer young. Haven't been for quite awhile. And that is fine by me. However, my memory of myself in my 20's may have faded, a lot or a little. So maybe when I was younger I was quick to judge, quick to take offense, quick to defend (to the death) any idea or thought I liked or agreed with or even came up with on my own. Passion is, after all, tiring work and youth has more engergy (usually). But I don't recall being so quick to assume that anyone who had a different view point was evil (or at best simply stupid).
The old fashioned meaning of the word "liberal" seems to have been forgotten (or ignored) sometime back. It used to mean "open to new things", or "flexible" or "Tolerant of differences." That may be why so many young people wanted to be liberal, as opposed to what they thought older people were: afraid of anything new, stuck in the mud, cynical, judgmental and pessimistic. Conservative.
I do not disagree with a word you have said, about the newly proposed business (or the Merc) etc. But you and I may be wrong about how much sucess this new venture will encounter (and wouldn't that be a great thing?). Only time will tell. I won't root against it working out real well! I always pull for the underdog.
However, in the midst of the S**T storm that you raised on that issue, the little sub-plot of "How DARE you disagree with me?!!" that resulted points out (to me) that our lovely liberal town is not really very tolerant of anyone who isn't "in-step" with the current in-vogue trend or idea.
Whatever happened to putting flowers in the ends of guns?
localbird (anonymous) says…
jilla.......I think it is important that you are aware of the Millstein's kind business workings. Here is a post from ljworld in regards to the Casbah.
"furthermore, i wish the best of luck to the millsteins! they are a great family and deserve the best. i worked at the casbah and i can say that the millsteins have been nothing but caring accommodating landlords who never sold us out for high rent. can't say that about most downtown landlords."
localbird (anonymous) says…
Jilla,
I think that everyone has the right to state his or her opinion, however, you completely lack an ability to think things through in this article. Your article is full of presumptions and hypocrisy. Firstly, you assume these kids are receiving free rent just because their father owns the building. It is never right to assume. You have not seen the lease nor have you seen the work that these kids have been through, and will continue to engage in. Do you know the intensity of the work of opening a business? Secondly, even if the kids are receiving some portion of aid, financial or otherwise is that so bad? I noticed on your own website you are asking complete strangers to donate money to send you on some expensive trip to photograph people in need. That seems more than slightly hypocritical. If you really want to help those people, instead of exploiting them, why don't you give the money you are receiving for no work, directly to them? You stated early that you believe that these three people have not thoroughly thought out their business venture, however, it is readily apparent that you did not think out this article. Again, it is important to share opinions, however, it is wrong to simply throw unjustifiable hatred.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
"Again, it is important to share opinions, however, it is wrong to simply throw unjustifiable hatred."
Lordy, lordy, I promised myself I'd stay away from these blogs for a while, but If I did, I'd miss the beauty of statements like this too much.
tofu fight!!!!
Yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk....
Weezy_Jefferson (anonymous) says…
I agree, thetomdotdot. This should get interesting. I need some popcorn.
Keith (anonymous) says…
"I probably can't step foot in The Merc now without being stoned."
Careful, you'll end up buying lots of extra groceries that way.
P.S. I know, I know, but it was such a great straight line.
MjA (MJ Allen) says…
There are presently two specialty markets in downtown Lawrence: Au Marche and Brits. They have been around for a number of years and are both very successful (and are operated by absolutely lovely people!).
So, the idea of another specialty market (which is the essence of this venture) filling yet another niche, is not so crazy. It warms my heart to see that this market will also be operated by lovely people.
Good for them.
Love me some Millsteins!
Weezy_Jefferson (anonymous) says…
I frequently hear local commericals mention "beautiful downtown Lawrence," yet I can't figure out what's so beautiful about 3 or 4 empty storefronts per block along Mass Street.
I'd prefer downtown to be inhabited by local, original stores, but if the Powers That Be won't make the rent more affordable, then I'd much rather see a national chain move in than have yet another blank window gawk at pedestrians. However, I heard that many national chains don't want to set up shop along Mass Street because the stores are too small. So...what gives? How can downtown stay alive?
Someone on this blog mentioned Boulder, Colorado. Their downtown scene, called Pearl Street Mall, is like our downtown but on a smaller scale---it stretches for only 2 or 3 blocks. It's also closed to vehicle traffic and, if I remember correctly, has quite a few national chains mixed in with unique stores. There are street musicians, kiosks, clowns with balloons, jugglers, hippies, panhandlers...in a sense, the works. Lawrence could easily be something similar, except for one major detail: Boulder is in Colorado, not Kansas. The Flatiron mountains are a bike's ride away, and the entire Front Range hosts millions of attractions that keep not only the locals from leaving but also the tourists coming. Here in Lawrence, we have....um....downtown. For our downtown to survive it has to be the main attraction.
I think Lawrence can---and should---have a healthy mix of local shops and national chains. I just hate to see store after store have to tape newspapers up in their windows because the city can't come up with a viable solution.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
localbird, you are Lawrencian through and through....
You've infused my "article" (uh, no, it's a BLOG. Welcome to the internet.) and assumed a great deal just to fit your soapbox standards. It's truly amazing how much of your criticisms you embody. We're all hypocrites, darling. Welcome to the human race.
I'm not receiving any money, yet, and you have got to be fucking kidding me on this....for "no work" as you put it. Apparently I'm just going to sit on my ass and let the dough roll in rather than renting a car, driving down with donations, volunteering for a week, and then putting on a show, JUST to show that art cannot only be a passive force. Believe me, you delicate flower you, I have a method to this "free hand-out" and there will be meaning behind it. Sure, I could be just another asshole sitting far away, saying "well, shucks, I'm gonna collect me some money for Katrina victims" and then washing my hands of it, but I'm pretty sure there are a few ways for people to donate their money without me as an intermediary. If that's what they want to do, fine. If they want to actually drive down with me, or give actual supplies for me to bring down, or fund the resulting artwork (of which a portion of the proceeds will go BACK to Common Ground) well then, that's up to them, now isn't it.
Yes, I DO know the intensity of trying to open your own business. And if I were going to open a coffee shop, like I had previously planned on doing, I would expect the same criticism from the populace. In fact, I would look at it as a learning experience. I think those kids can take it, even if you can't. And if you think ANY of the above is hatred, you dainty flower you, then maybe you should get out in the world more. You seem to be one of those types to throw weighty words (hatred, exploitation) around, and not even in jest.
Thank you for those who posted on the Millsteins...of course the "information" was just the opinions of two or three people, but still...it's information. It's good to share...and really, *crunchy granola sigh* isn't that what it's about.
Ladylaw, I always appreciate your tactfulness. I don't think it's really a shitstorm, but it is kind of amusing how riled up people get/how much they don't even listen to opposing opinions. Me, I'm done. So, so done with this.
Keith, OH MAN I can't believe I set that up. Good show!
And if this town turned into fucking Boulder, I'd....I'd....well, I'd probably just move.
localbird (anonymous) says…
Jilla,
Wow, I am surprised at the extent to which my "dainty little flower" words got under your ever so tough skin. Wow, you plan to drive down the donations and volunteer for an entire week! Honey, I've been volunteering for the past three years most of which I spent 20 hours a week volunteering.
You plan to give a portion back! GREAT, I am sure that the people will not feel exploited at all when you keep the remainder to yourself. That really sounds like your doing this for the betterment of the community, not for the betterment of the self.
I'm sure that the thought of planning to open a coffee shop was really strenuous and it must have drove you drink your expensive pretentious drinks down at the Pig of which you can afford (but not afford the food in a downtown grocery store). Liquid Diet??? You must indeed, be the most practiced specialist of opening businesses. Maybe instead of placing blame for your hypocrisy and negativity on a societal level you should take responsibility for your immature, ill-researched words. .
Sincerely
Your dainty flower
P.S. Good Show, it has been fun.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
Oh fer crying out loud....
Well, since you seem to have all the answers, how do you suppose a struggling artist feeds herself? How do you suppose I find the money to MAKE the artwork and be a full-time student? Please, tell me. Apparently nothing will please you, so you tell ME how much I should charge for my work. Because apparently, according to my professor, I'm charging way too little. Gosh, I'm such an elitist little pig. Can't make rent next month, but holy hell if I don't get raked over the coals for mentioning having a drink at the Pig. Swell. And I thought I was judgemental.
And I did more than "plan" for a coffee shop. I also fail to see why I have to lay out every little detail of my life to justify a stupid blog. Do you take everything so seriously?
Bully for you on the volunteering front. I'm sure it's always fair weather up there on your high horse. I never said I wanted an award for what I'll be doing. I only mentioned it because of your industrious little "research" into my goings-on. But thanks for tainting a good thing. And maybe we'll just have to disagree here, but I think the people of Common Ground might like a little free publicity and a new volunteer...even if it's "only for a week". Maybe you want to go to school and pay my bills for me while I go save the world.
Seriously, if you start looking for hypocrisy in everyone you meet, but never yourself, you're going to be one unhappy bird.
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
And joe_cocker_spaniel, I'm sorry your comment, and a few others got lost in the mire, but I just wanted to say....welcome and the words you said pleased me...and no, not only because I agree. There's something to be said for people who don't take this TOO seriously, humor is also a bonus.
billy (Billy Keefe) says…
A Trader Joes in Lawrence would be wonderful. The one in NYC is literally picked clean every night, it is amusing to stand and watch grown adults race each other to the last bag of frozen, organic, vegetarian gyozas. And, need I even mention Two Buck Chuck?
godjilla (Jill Ensley) says…
What I wouldn't give a big bag of Trader Joe's knock-off Pirate's Booty.
And YES, Two Buck Chuck.