Posted
by Chris Tackett
September 13, 2006 at 10:12 a.m.
Jesus Camp: The Movie
There's a new documentary called [ Jesus Camp][1] that should spark plenty of conversation and controversy in the next few weeks. It follows some Missouri kids who travel to North Dakota to attend an evangelical camp where kids are trained "to become dedicated soldiers in 'God's army'." (It's out on Friday in two [KC-area theaters][2]). Here's the trailer: It definitely looks interesting and thought-provoking, to say the least. However, since I haven't seen it yet, I don't want to opine too much. Instead I'll post a sample of David Byrne's review and open it up for conversation. You can read the full review from the Talking Head's frontman [here.][3]Saw a screening of a documentary called Jesus Camp. It focuses on a woman preacher (Becky Fischer) who indoctrinates children in a summer camp in North Dakota. Right wing political agendas and slogans are mixed with born again rituals that end with most of the kids in tears. Tears of release and joy, they would claim - the children are not physically abused. The kids are around 9 or 10 years old, recruited from various churches, and are pliant willing receptacles. They are instructed that evolution is being forced upon us by evil Godless secular humanists, that abortion must be stopped at all costs, that we must form an "army" to defeat the Godless influences, that we must band together to insure that the right judges and politicians get into the courts and office and that global warming is a lie. (This last one is a puzzle - how did accepting the evidence for climate change and global warming become anti-Jesus? Did someone simply conflate all corporate agendas with Jesus and God and these folks accept that? Would Jesus drive an SUV? Is every conclusion responsible scientists make now suspect?) :There were some perfect sound bites - at one point Pastor Fischer instructs the little ones that they should be willing to die for Christ, and the little ones obediently agree. She may even use the word martyr, which has a shocking echo in the Middle East. I can see future suicide bombers for Jesus - the next step will be learning to fly planes into buildings. Of course, the grownups would say, "Oh no, we're not like them" - but they admit that the principal difference is simply that "We're right."Byrne later compares the camp to the Saudi-funded Madrassas in the Middle East. However you'll want to read his entire review for proper context. Having not seen the entire film I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison or not. However the trailer shows that that thought isn't something Byrne just pulled out of nowhere. The leader of the camp states in the trailer that she's working to counter/mimic what the Madrassas' are doing.I think this film and the camp as well are both worth looking at in the context of our current political state in this country. Bush believes we're in a fight between ["good and evil"][4] and ["fighting for our way of life"][5], all the while we're hearing more and more people in the administration use the term "IslamoFascists" to describe the badguys we're fighting against, essentially telling the world's billion or so Muslims (peaceful and radical) that they are the same as the Nazi's or the Italian fascists of that era since those are the most well-known examples of Fascism in recent history. Is there not a better term they could be using? One that doesn't lump all peaceful Muslims in with the terrorists? I tend to think if you're trying to win hearts and minds you shouldn't [insult an entire religion.][6] But that's just me. So are we finally in the big apocalyptic show-down between the world's major religions? Are 'Jesus Camps' something we'll see more of as this religious war cranks up to full-speed? I certainly hope not, but if there's one thing the Bush Administration is good at it's blurring the lines between un-related topics. A War on Terror should not be synonymous with a War on Islam. And the politicians and media shouldn't assume their constituents and readers are going to think critically enough to recognize the difference.Additional Links: [Here's][7] the site for the church the film focuses on.[IndieWIRE article.][8]There are also some additional video clips on the film's [official site][1] [1]: http://jesuscampthemovie.com/ [2]: http://www.lawrence.com/movies/1192/ [3]: http://journal.davidbyrne.com/2006/08/american_madras.html [4]: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/12/AR2006091201594_pf.html [5]: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/06/bush.transcript/index.html/ [6]: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14319984// [7]: http://kidsinministry.com/index.html/ [8]: http://www.indiewire.com/biz/2006/07/magnolia_eyeing.html/
Comments
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scary_manilow (anonymous) says…
I can't wait till these little bastards grow up and start suicide bombing targets on our home turf, a la Tim McVeigh... At long last, we'll have an excuse to declare war on North Dakota.
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says…
"You know - these exercises are fantastic. When the day comes we have to go to war against Utah, we're really going to kick ass, y'know?"
El_Borak (Bill Hoyt) says…
I'm an ordinary guy, burning down the house.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
They got mullets on them youngins.
Wackos.
OnShakedown (Chris Tackett) says…
scary, i hope that doesn't happen and don't think it will, but a lot can change in 15 to 20 years. and unfortunately there are a lot of people with fundamentalist views who really do see other religions as competition and even enemies.
dazie, why utah? i'd imagine vermont, new hampshire or oregon would be first on the shit-list. Or p'haps the godless hollywood liberals. utah seems like it'd be homebase to this bunch.
el_b, i think "Hold tight wait till the partys over
Hold tight were in for nasty weather" is a little more fitting. : )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
"...unfortunately there are a lot of people with fundamentalist views who really do see other religions as competition and even enemies."
You can say that again.
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says…
Chris- it's a quote from the movie "Broken Arrow"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/
OnShakedown (Chris Tackett) says…
gotcha. i figured it was a riff off scary. i guess i need to refresh on my travolta films
cvillehawk (anonymous) says…
"The leader of the camp states in the trailer that she's working to counter/mimic what the Madrassas' are doing."
"there are a lot of people with fundamentalist views who really do see other religions as competition and even enemies."
And doesn't that just point out the utter ridiculousness of these people? In order to fight an implacable enemy, we have to adopt his methods? Hello.... McFly??!!!
cvillehawk (anonymous) says…
Man that gives me the willies. And the fact that a person sitting one cubicle over from me could watch it and feel the exact opposite is a scary thought to me.
phish_rules (anonymous) says…
Wow. People suck.
satchel (anonymous) says…
Yes, currently Christians are taking hostages and cutting off heads on camera, then use a machetti to maim the prisoners at Guantanamo bay while sticking their body parts in their mouths then cutting off their heads.
Christians hang gay people from bridges and kill anyone who turns from the Christian faith. Christians make their women wear Burkas' and beat them, and claim that when their women die they get 72 male virgins. Wait a minute, that is for the men.. Hold it, what DO women get after they die?
It is amazing to me to see America taking one idiotic sect with the likes of Phelps and claim this is 'all of Christianity'.. At least Phelps and these idiots at this camp don't do the things that those who are Islamist do. But, we would NEVER have a film about militant Islam now would we.
Have you all ever heard of Billy Graham or his son Franklin? They are more descriptive of mainstream media than these clowns on film. This film is another liberal film depicting all Christians this way in order to win the elections in November and in 2008.
alm77 (anonymous) says…
Where have I been for the past few days??? GEEZ.
I went to church camp growing up in Missouri. My mom knows people in that movie. Our camp wasn't loud and obnoxious like this one, but I know of kids who's were.
I have to say, this movie is already becoming outdated. The political tides among Christians are beginning to turn. For example: Greg Boyd is refusing to allow his church to be a platform for Republican politics. He doesn't preach 'go out and vote against....'. You can read about him here: http://www.amhersttimes.com/index.php...
As far as the issue of environmentalism, a Vineyard church in Boise Idaho is leading the way amongst followers of Christ. Senior Pastor Tri Robinson is being featured in a new PBS special regarding the work of his church. You can read more about that here: http://www.letstendthegarden.org/
Other Christians who are doing their part to reverse the mix of religion and politics are Rob Bell, pastor of Mars Hill and Relevant Magazine.
On other issues, Don't form your opinions based on ignorance and fear. (If you're really that interested watch the movie) They're not training these kids to hate, or kill. David Bryne's comparision of Christian martyrs to sucide bombers is far fetched and ridiculous. The examples of martyrdom found in the Bible and all of Christian history are peaceful people being killed by someone else for their faith. Just because one group of religious people have redefined martyrdom doesn't mean they've redefined it for everyone. And who decided the lead singer of Talking Heads was qualified to review a movie on this subject with any authority???
coolmom42 (anonymous) says…
I saw this movie today. It is awesome! i recommend everyone see it. Will everyone agree with all of it? No. But you cannot argue with the confidence of these kids. They seem happy, well-adjusted, and content. Not words usually associated with children of this age. See it for yourself and then judge it.
prizzle (Paul Rosen) says…
This movie seems really interesting to me, and if you checked out any of the links the film makers are lauded for their objectivity by both sides of the aisle. Or, at least it is being promoted that way. The scene that was most disturbing to me was the scene in which the children were asked if "they were ready to die for Jesus". While few people are ready die in general, these eight to ten year olds sure seemed ready(mostly because they fully understand the implications of such a question, sarcasm button here) I was surprised to see the fervor of the responses in not only the children but the adults as well.
Another troubling notion to come out of this is the implications of a monopoly on God. This is the vexing issue of all religions, that some how we (which ever group we belong to) understand/have a closer relationship to God better than they (which ever group they belong to) do. For me, there is more than enough God to go around.
And to address David Byrne, what authority does he have to write a movie review, well obviously it is probably a job that he is paid to do. As far as his opinion carrying any more weight than ours expressed here on this board, no it doesn't, the only thing that separates his opinion and ours, is that he puts his name on it.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
"The examples of martyrdom found in the Bible and all of Christian history are peaceful people being killed by someone else for their faith. Just because one group of religious people have redefined martyrdom doesn't mean they've redefined it for everyone."
Does that peaceful intent count for the crusaders? (Just for instance).
Maybe we won't agree on Jesus, martyrdom, or the agressive history of christiandom (ask a native american), but I'm with you on David Byrne.
alm77 (anonymous) says…
Tom, yeah, the crusade is a bit of an embarassment to anyone who claims the name "Christian", but I don't know of anyone from that time being held up as an example of martyrdom. My point is that Christians being asked to die for their faith is usually a reference to the persecution being seen in other parts of the world. See here:
http://www.releaseinternational.org/p...
I also think at times the image that Christians have of dying for their faith are that of someone holding a gun to their head Columbine style. http://www.cassierenebernall.org/
IMO, most American's Christian faith would wilt away with a more indirect persecution. Its easier to take an instant bullet than suffer under certain living conditions for your faith. Dying for Jesus is one thing, living for Him is much harder.
OnShakedown (Chris Tackett) says…
here's a short article from ABC on the film:
http://rawstory.com/showoutarticle.ph...
satchel: i hope you didn't misunderstand my purpose for posting this piece. i don't mean to imply that your average christians are the same as radical islamic terrorists. That would be ridiculous.
re: madrassas. I didn't make the comment. I hadn't seen the film, but the lead figure in the film implies the comparison and Byrne (who did watch the film) pointed it out as well.
re: byrne. he saw the film. I hadn't. And I actually first learned of the film off his blog. In regards to him having authority to write about it, I'd say that's for the reader to decide. But that's how it should be. With any sort of press or news it's the readers job to decide if the writer is saying anything worth listening to. I like the Talking Heads and find his blog interesting and thought-provoking. Is he an expert on movie-making or politics? Of course not. But neither are a lot of people that write about such things, including myself.
And finally, keep in mind that the film isn't trying to show you what Christianity is all about. It is showing what is going on in this certain camp in this certain town at this certain time in history. It is not indicative of the entire religion. Likewise, what is happening in the Saudi madrassas is not what all of Islam is all about. These are radical extremists, practicing a fundamentalist form of Islam. And we are wrong to blame all Muslims for the actions of these radicals. That was the point I was trying to make at the end of the column.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
Alm77:
Interesting site. I wonder how the map would repaint if you mapped religious persecution in general, not just against christians. My totally baseless guess would be not much at all. Don't mind me, it won't take me long to get totally out of my depth on this subject.
For myself, I deeply admire Cassie Bernall for her integrity. No one could ever question that even if their faith lies elsewhere.
I sometimes fantasize about what I would do in that same situation if asked the same question by a rampaging maniac. I would like to think I'd say "No, but I think YOU are a fucking pussy, gunboy".
But thats just me.
alm77 (anonymous) says…
tom, I agree that there are some countries that persecute ALL religions. China has gained infamy for it's stance against Falun Dafa and Falun Gong as well as Christianity, but most places on that map are not communist countries against religion. They are mostly countries of other religions.
All in all, I think dying for one's faith can only be speculated. The last night that Jesus was alive, he was dining with his buddies and Peter swore he'd follow Jesus to the death, but he denied even knowing the guy 3 times before the sun came up the next day. It's great to say you'd follow through, but things may be different when you're in the actual situation. That's why I think people shouldn't get their panties in a wad when one group proudly announces their decision to die for a cause.
I'd hate to see people motivated by the left out of fear of Jesus suicide bombers. I thought the Reds had the corner on the market of FEAR. ;)
chungasrevenge (anonymous) says…
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
www.evilbible.com
alm77 (anonymous) says…
chunga, you've mistaken this site for ljworld.com I'm afraid.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
"I'd hate to see people motivated by the left out of fear of Jesus suicide bombers. I thought the Reds had the corner on the market of FEAR. ;)"
Sorry, I don't get what you're saying here. Rephrase?
alm77 (anonymous) says…
I'm just saying the Republicans are infamous for using fear of terrorists to motivate people to vote for them. They say Dems are weak on national security. I think this is an unfounded fear.
And equally unfounded, David Byrne says "I can see future suicide bombers for Jesus - the next step will be learning to fly planes into buildings." and then goes on to say "They want to turn the U.S. into the "Christian" version of Iran or Saudi Arabia. A theocracy. The separation between church and state, already shaky with Bush in charge, is under full frontal assault by this bunch - and they are well organized, too."
So if I'm understanding this right:
Republicans = vote for me out of fear of muslim terrorists.
Dems = vote for me out of fear of christian terrorist.
Does that make more sense? So far the Dems haven't caved to "fear mongering" and I'd hate to see that happen.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
"Republicans = vote for me out of fear of muslim terrorists.
Dems = vote for me out of fear of christian terrorist."
I read that his morning. I'm still wiping the coffe out of my keyboard.
Mayhaps (always wanted to use that word) a bit oversimplified, but still an elegant summary of why I hate everybody.
Just kidding.
For the most part.
El_Borak (Bill Hoyt) says…
TT.. in regards to something else you wrote elsewhere, a nice liberal 'splains why two things are not the same:
"A cult of death is forming in the Muslim world - for reasons that are perfectly explicable in terms of the Islamic doctrines of martyrdom and jihad... with those who believe that death in defense of the faith is the highest possible good, that cartoonists should be killed for caricaturing the prophet and that any Muslim who loses his faith should be butchered for apostasy."
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/l...
Since those things exist in one place and not in another, to worry that the places are the same is to fret overmuch at least half the time. I'm just saying.
Chunga demonstrates for us all hypercompetence in the use of CTRL-C and CTRL-V. Nice job! Most of us have probably never seen that in the 10,000 or so places it exists on the internet.
Alm77: the Dems are weak on national defense, but only when there's a GOP President. They were perfectly willing to bomb their way to peace (remember when a guy named "Milosevich" was the next Hitler?) so long as they gained political advantage from it. But they've done plenty of fear-mongering on Social Security, so they are by no means pikers when it comes to manipulating emotion.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
LB: There's just not enough beer to even get started on the conservative = christian v. liberal = atheist (and the resulting corollary) I was referring to elsewhere. That myth - or some variation - is perpetuated by both sides. The reason behind said perpetuation is beyond even my capacity for cynicism, and I'm confused (hurt?) when I hear it from you. I'm old enough to remember the days when the religious were usually left of center. Hell, my mother is still alive, though her alliances have become vague. Thats not a shift in her 'values'. The sands shifted elsewhere and beyond her control.
I take your point and that of alm77. But thats not enough to keep me from fretting overmuch most of the time. I have no argument against the existence of the Islamic death culture, nor am I David Byrne; the difference between killing for jesus and dying for jesus hasn't escaped me like it seems to have escaped him.
But ya'll have to understand that some of us open minded agnostics have difficulty seeing anything BUT the man behind the curtain.
And I don't trust him(/her).
El_Borak (Bill Hoyt) says…
"There's just not enough beer to even get started..."
Some day there *will* be enough beer, and that day we'll get started. Perhaps we'll not reach agreement, but I'm sure we'll reach a respectful understanding and we'll both learn something. Sometimes that's the best one can hope for.
However in my defense, I weasel-worded 'suspect' in there, because I have not seen the thing, am in no position to say for sure, and would happily be corrected. I've just seen enough that my own cynicism allows (forces) me to draw tentative conclusions based on prior experience - and one of those is that certain things are done less for religious reasons than for partisan ones, even though they look religious. But I'm not so enamoured of my own wisdom that I cannot be taught should the facts, once revealed, not go my way. And ain't that what science is all about?
alm77 (anonymous) says…
Bill, my husband agreed with you on the Dems and fear, but I make this point. Dems make people fear losing their lifestyle. Republicans make them fear losing their life. Big difference.
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says…
There should be a word for the prejudice and cynicism we collect through experience. If I cheat and simply call it bias, then I'm curious to see just how much beer it'll take for me to prove mine or you to prove yours. Yea, I know, you can 'prove' bias like you can wage a 'war' on 'terror', but through all the abstractions and speculations I trust we will never forget the most essential truth.
The beer is real.
El_Borak (Bill Hoyt) says…
"Dems make people fear losing their lifestyle. Republicans make them fear losing their life. Big difference."
I see it only as the difference between a home run and a ground-rule double: the distinction is one of execution, not of intent.
Eric_Melin (Eric Melin) says…
Pastor will shut down controversial kids camp
By Religion News Service and The Associated Press
In the film "Jesus Camp," the Rev. Ted Haggard is shown preaching. Haggard was fired by a Colorado church amid allegations of gay sex and drug use.
The summer camp featured in the documentary "Jesus Camp," which includes scenes with disgraced preacher Ted Haggard, will shut down for at least several years because of negative reaction sparked by the film, according to the camp's director.
"Right now we're just not a safe ministry," Becky Fischer, the fiery Pentecostal pastor featured in "Jesus Camp," said Tuesday.
The documentary, which hit select U.S. theaters during the summer, portrays Fischer, 55, as drill instructor to a group of young evangelical children steeling themselves for spiritual and political warfare.
Led by Fischer, the children pray in tongues, as is common in charismatic strains of Pentecostalism; tearfully beg God to end abortion; and bless President Bush at a weeklong camp in Devils Lake, N.D.
Fischer has drawn fire from some corners for "brainwashing" the children. After vandals damaged the campground last month and critics besieged Fischer with negative e-mails, phone calls and letters, the pastor said she's shutting down the camp for at least several years.
"I don't think we'll be doing it for a while," she said.
Fischer lives in Bismarck, N.D., and is chief pastor at The Fire Center, a church devoted to children's ministry there. She has run the weeklong "Kids on Fire" summer camp, which is featured in the film, since 2002, with 75 to 100 children attending each year.
The documentary also includes scenes of Haggard, the evangelical leader accused of gay sex and drug use.
In one scene, directors Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady visit Haggard's 14,000-member New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. He tells the vast audience, "We don't have to debate about what we should think about homosexual activity. It's written in the Bible."
Then Haggard looks into the camera and says kiddingly: "I think I know what you did last night," drawing laughs from the crowd. "If you send me a thousand dollars, I won't tell your wife."
Later, another joke for the filmmakers: "If you use any of this, I'll sue you."
The married, 50-year-old father of five admitted in a letter read Sunday to his followers that he was "guilty of sexual immorality." He has yet to address specific claims by a male escort that Haggard paid him for sex over the past three years.
Haggard also leads the audience in praying for President Bush to select a Supreme Court nominee who supports their beliefs (it would end up being Samuel Alito) and later brags about the rapid expansion of evangelicalism.
"It's got enough growth to essentially sway every election," Haggard says with a smile. "If the evangelicals vote, they determine the election."