August 22, 2006
[Via Bookslut,][1] Nick Hornby waxes eloquently about book snobbery:_If reading books is to survive as a leisure activity - and there are statistics that show that this is by no means assured - then we have to promote the joys of reading, rather than the (dubious) benefits.__I would never attempt to dissuade anyone from reading a book. But please, if you're reading a book that's killing you, put it down and read something else, just as you would reach for the remote if you weren't enjoying a television programme.Your failure to enjoy a highly rated novel doesn't mean you're dim - you may find that Graham Greene is more to your taste, or Stephen Hawking, or Iris Murdoch, or Ian Rankin. Dickens, Stephen King, whoever.It doesn't matter. All I know is that you can get very little from a book that is making you weep with the effort of reading it. You won't remember it, and you'll learn nothing from it, and you'll be less likely to choose a book over Big Brother next time you have a choice._In other words: Let's stop making fun of people who read "The Da Vinci Code."It's a sensible approach, and one I probably haven't been good about taking. I feel a little bit red-faced when I admit to reading, say, a Heinlein novel, because if I was a serious reader, I'd be racing through Proust or Flaubert or something.What do you readers say? [1]: http://www.bookslut.com/blog/archives/2006_08.php#009789
Comments
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lazz (anonymous) says...
If we're not going to make fun of people reading "The Da Vinci Code," can we at least tease people who admit to reading Proust?
I'm with ya, Joel. And Nick. Reading is reading. Dropped my car at Das Autohaus this morning, walking to work I saw a young guy, maybe, i dunno, 7th or 8th grade, cool kid, maybe a skater, on his way to school, face buried in a book, reading as he walked. It looked like maybe he was reading a graphic novel, one of those perfect-bound comics. I thought that was cool as hell. Man oh man was that ever great to see.
Read, read and read some more. We all have our Da Vinci codes, no need to apologize for it. As long as it doesn't have an on button, it's all good.
August 22, 2006 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
davidryan (David Ryan) says...
"can we at least tease people who admit to reading Proust?"
Um.... I'll just go hide in a corner for this one....
August 22, 2006 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lazz (anonymous) says...
Actually, Dave, I had you in mind, pal.
But you know I'd never tease you.
At least not for your taste in reading material.
Clothes, friends, music ... maybe. Books, never.
August 22, 2006 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kalcarloskals (anonymous) says...
I'd never mock someone for reading the Da Vinci Code. The people I mock are those that tell me, "You've gotta read The Da Vinci Code!" and then don't understand the disdain I hold them in. I am a person who reads, and yes, I have heard of The Da Vinci Code. I'll start it as soon as I finish Grisham's complete works. Hack is hack, that being said, I'll make my own reading lists. BTW- What's the most absurd book you've ever seen someone 'reading' in a bar? I once saw a guy reading Lucretius, in Latin. Douchebag.
August 22, 2006 at 4:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Joel (Joel Mathis) says...
I gotta ask.
DaveRyan -- was that *you* reading Lucretius in the bar?
No, no, no. It does no good to retreat from reading snobbery if we're going to take refuge instead in anti-intellectualism. Dave: I hope that was you reading Lucretius. With a brandy. Wearing a blazer.
August 22, 2006 at 4:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lazz (anonymous) says...
As long as we're being honest here and not laughing at each other -- even those who "read" Proust -- I'm charging to the defense of Mr. Grisham. I think the man is a superb storyteller, and it has always felt awkward to disassociate storytelling with writing. I think his writing style and ability suits the stories he tells, and therefore is appropriate. I've read everything he's published and have only been disappointed twice -- THE BRETHREN and THE KING OF TORTS. And I take back that I've read everything -- didn't read BLEACHERS.
THE CHAMBER (death penalty), THE RUNAWAY JURY (big tobacco/jury malfeasance), THE PELICAN BRIEF (environmental protections), and THE TESTAMENT (religious freedom and substance abuse) all tackle some serious social matters, and do so entertainingly.
Also labeled, unfairly, I think, as a minimally talented best-seller is crime novelist Michael Connelly. Read it all, enjoyed every page of it.
C'mon now, anybody else partake of laundromat time passers?
August 22, 2006 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
leslie (Leslie vonHolten) says...
I feel that all of the Milton, Joyce, and Wordsworth I've trudged through ill-prepared me for capitalism, but it has granted me the right to be a snob. Pop-culturally, I'm illiterate--and at every social gathering I am forced to endure HOURS of movie quotes and obscure-actor one-upmanship. The least I can do is harbor a seething superiority. Please don't take that away from me, Joel.
As for that guy with Lucretius, I've seen worse mating calls.
August 22, 2006 at 5:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
My grandmother was a teacher way back yonder in small schools in Nevada. There wasn't much money to go around, even to buy schoolbooks. What little money she could scrounge up she used to buy comic books. Generations of kids learned to read from her, each one beginning with Capt. America (or whatever was popular at the time). Each generation of parents put up a fuss, and each time she refused to listen. She knew that if a child read ANYTHING it would help, and that if a child could learn that reading was fun, that he or she would continue to read.
August 22, 2006 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Joel (Joel Mathis) says...
Dazie, you just about brought tears to my eyes. I'm in a weird mood today, so that should be accounted for, but still: What a lovely story.
Leslie: Your literacy is one of your charms. I'm just interested in not setting the bar too high, so we can get more folks in at the ground level. The person who reads "Da Vinci" today might work their way to Milton, Joyce, etc. tomorrow. (Although if you're selling it as "trudging" material, perhaps not.) I read Stephen King and Tom Clancy in high school; they're not my cup of tea now, but they may have helped lay the foundation for reading as a habit in my life.
August 22, 2006 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
katnip (Deb Townsend) says...
I have mentioned this before, but my read anything at any cost mentality got me off to an interesting start in my literary life. I ran out of things to read on a cross country trip and decided to read my step mom's Jackie Collins novels, it started me on that crap until I was about 12 when I read "Dune" and then I was back on track. I read a lot of Dickens and Austen and the Bronte sisters until a high school crush gave me "Naked Lunch" by William S Burroughs, and although my dad found it and nearly had a stroke, I discovered another genre of literature. I am a lit whore, I read everything, with the exception of Danielle Steele, there are still too many childhood scars. Scariest of all, I married a nonreader.
August 22, 2006 at 5:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says...
The Hardy Boys made a reader out of me. I remember taking weeks to read a book and constantly bothering my older brothers with questions.
Entertainment and learning are not mutually exclusive.
August 22, 2006 at 6:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CafeSiren (anonymous) says...
DaVinci code... bleah. But it's better than "reality" TV. Read anything -- read Harry Potter, Stephen King -- anything that gives your imagination a workout. Books will point you to other books, sometimes better, sometimes worse.
Anyone else out there have a childhood where a key feature of summer (other than the swimming pool opening) was the library summer book club? Anyone else out there remember how excited you were to get the adult library card? Anybody recall that first, furtive encounter with a "naughty" book? (No, I'm not talking about porn; just something that had "adult situations" -- something like "Forever" or part of the V.C. Andrews ouevre.)
Ah... reading.
August 22, 2006 at 7:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
Joel- she was amazing. She'd go down to the voting office after election day and collect all the ballots. The kids would get a year's worth of paper for free, albeit they coud only use one side!
She also went on the game show "Queen for a Day" one time. Her wish if she won- that every child in her school would have milk every day. She came in 2nd and won a clock instead. *lol* I still have that clock. It reminds me that there are ways of doing things that might not fall into the "norm."
August 22, 2006 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
PS: Here's her "reward" for all her hard work: http://www.washoe.k12.nv.us/allen/
:)
August 22, 2006 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says...
Dazie:
Wow. Now that really did bring tears to my eyes. Especially since I was expecting a picture of a clock.
Your grandmother is what its all about.
August 22, 2006 at 7:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JohnB (anonymous) says...
Hornby's remark--yours, too, Joel--reminds me of times when I've defended Oprah's Book Club from its detractors. It just made no sense to me for these people to dismiss Toni Morrison (of all people) just because her novels had been selected by Winfrey. It was as though these people had forgotten that little thing called the Nobel Prize that Morrison had won ten years before. Sure--Billie Letts is in the Club, too. But, as the commenters above have shown, that first book doesn't have to be serious literature in order to lead its reader in that direction.
August 22, 2006 at 8:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
liz (Liz Weslander) says...
Cafe Siren: Oh yes, I beleive it was page 136 that the girl met "Ralph" in Forever.
Funny that I remember the page number and the name of the penis, but not the name of the main character.
August 22, 2006 at 8:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
counterlife (anonymous) says...
For those who have "read" Proust's epic and are not afraid to admit they find it one of their most interesting reading adventures, I submit Edmund Wilson in "Axel's Castle" describing Proust:
"Proust is perhaps the last great historian of the loves, the society, the intelligence, the diplomacy, the literature and the art of the Heartbreak House of capitalist culture; and the little man with with sad appealing voice, the metaphysician's mind, the Saracen's beak, the ill-fitting dress-shirt and the great eyes that seem to see all about him like the many-faceted eyes of a fly, dominates the scene and plays host in the mansion where he is not long to be master."
Great writing about great writing. Life is short, I won't waste my reading time (including in the laundromat) on Tom Clancy or on Mr. Grisham for that matter, although Grisham is far better than Clancy, up to a point.
Oh, but please do read on, whatever it is.
Anybody remember when Saul Bellow's novels were often number one the NYT Best Seller list? Probably not. It was not that long ago.
August 22, 2006 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kalcarloskals (anonymous) says...
Agreed that reading anything as a younger person or beginning reader is beneficial. My path to Nabokov and Faulkner is paved with King, Clancy, and all sorts of sci-fi. (I'm still anon., right?) What is dissapointing is to pick up a well-loved book from youth and discover.. the writing is terrible. I started Robert Jordan's fantasy series 14 years ago. As he is getting ready to finish to finish his gastly large 'epic', I decided to reread the books and be done with the thing. I couldn't make it ten pages the writing was so bad. I'll never know how the damn thing ends. That being said, I could never make it past five pages in Proust. Just go ahead and get to sleep buddy.
August 23, 2006 at 1:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lori (anonymous) says...
What exactly makes good literture good, and bad literature bad; Imean besides the obvious of writing and grammar? I've read some pretty nasty-tasting "literature" and some awesome, engaging "trash".
I'm not a snob. I read whatever Iike. I'm not a fan of Clancy, for example, but oh my god please dont' make me read Saul Bellows, either. And I don't even know who Proust is. And yet, my life is strangly happy and fulfilling anyhow. How can that possibly be?
I'm definately a fan of reading whatever interests you, and I won't exclude a book simply because it didn't get good reviews in the NYTimes, or it won't be taught in a lit class.
Right now, I'm reading a most excellent book about the interactions of humans and rats in general, and in particular in New York throughout the history of the city. Now you know, I'm really not kidding when I say I'll read, and enjoy, just about anything.
August 23, 2006 at 7:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jochan (Jocelyn Craft) says...
"I read Stephen King and Tom Clancy in high school; they're not my cup of tea now, but they may have helped lay the foundation for reading as a habit in my life."
I had several authors that did that for me: King, Anne McCaffrey and Agatha Christie. Further back there was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the Nancy Drew books and Encyclopedia Brown.
I still have 'fun' reads (in graduate school, they're essential to sanity), and I love reading some of today's 'young adult fiction' (Rowling's ultra-popular series and teen-geared novels by Australian Garth Nix).
Anything that gets a person reading is good. Anything. Comics. Dime-store novels. Cereal boxes. Anything.
Don't get me wrong, I have aspirations (like reading Camus in French), but the best reason to read is because I want to, no matter where it came from.
Besides, reading 'junk' gives me a good measure of what's 'good', and the chance to determine that standard for myself, instead of taking someone else's (possibly inapplicable) judgment.
August 23, 2006 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
Jocelyn- Camus in French? Been there, done that. *lol* Not much better than it is in English IMO. ;) Ionesco is even worse.
August 23, 2006 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Shelby (anonymous) says...
I took a james joyce class. i didn't get most of ulysses, in fact I read probably no more than 5 chapters. but i want to go back to it at some point, in the same way that I'm not entirely against trying magic mushrooms again. that said, though i got a lit degree from ku, i haven't read much in the last 3 years. i finally read the hitchiker's guide books, those were pretty funny. unlike a lot of you, i don't see the act of reading in and of itself as a virtuous endeavor; it seems more like a convenient method for, as it's been implied, asserting one's intellectual and cultural supremacy. i think reading lame books, like Dean Koontz's catalog or Mark McGwire's autobiography, is no more commendable than watching lame TV shows or movies, like Project Runway or Meet The Fockers.
August 23, 2006 at 8:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Mr_A (Bryan Anderson) says...
As a high school English teacher, I have to endure enough kid say " I hate reading." So if it takes Dan Brown or Tom Clancy to get kids interested in reading, whatever. I can't say that I was reading anything better at that age (except for what I was assigned to do for school). At least they are reading, and hopefully that will lead to reding being a life-long habbit. I mean, I hated Moby Dick when I read it in my junior English class, but I thought it was awesome when I read it at 26.
kal- btw, yeah, you're hecka anonymous...
no one will be able to figure out who you are, you master of disguise... Who could it possibly be?
August 23, 2006 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Joel (Joel Mathis) says...
" i don't see the act of reading in and of itself as a virtuous endeavor; "
I do.
Just last week, a report was released showing that television viewing literally numbs children --
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/479...
-- adding to years of studies showing that people watching TV literally have less brainwave activity than people who are asleep.
Given that TV is the dominant form of entertainment in this country, reading (as an alternative) *is* virtuous: It forces you to engage your mind, somewhat, either through learning or imagination. And I think that's important.
That said, I don't disagree that there's sometimes a whiff of elitism about the whole project. I'm not convinced, however, that's always bad.
August 23, 2006 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
Sad isn't it, that reading has become an "elite" endeavor. I was in a book club before I moved, and the thing I heard most was "Oh I just didn't have time to finish the book. Did you see American Idol last night?" I finally told one of the club members that if she'd turn off the damn TV maybe she could finish ANY of the books. For my troubles I received a blank stare and a "pfft" noise.
August 23, 2006 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says...
According to some of your standards I've 'wasted' probably all of my adult reading time. I read for enjoyment. To me, 'great writing' is writing that I enjoy. Great music is music that I can tolerate listening to. Is reading the news wasting time? It certainly ain't great writing, and the plot sucks.
I'm not a writer, so I have to seek musical parallels. The fabric of "Close to the Edge" (Yes - Close to the Edge 1972)is more complex than Liszt's Dflat Major, and the piano riff from "Call Me the Breeze" (Lynyrd Skynyrd - Second Helping, 1972) is harder to play. While I thank mom and dad for the piano lessons and the private school education, I only like what I like. The lines between "serious" and "pop" are drawn by those who sell stuff. Be it books, CDs, or education.
If the choice is between love and intellect, I'll take love.
Or naked bongo freedom, whichever comes first.
August 23, 2006 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Joel (Joel Mathis) says...
Dotdot: Like I already said: Read! I'm outta the judging biz.
Here's a question: What would be the right book to read while playing bongos naked?
August 23, 2006 at 11:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
Men and the Water of Life: Initiation and the Tempering of Men by Michael J. Meade (1994)
August 23, 2006 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Joel (Joel Mathis) says...
Hmmph. I woulda thought somebody would say "Iron John."
(Giggle.)
August 23, 2006 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says...
The Grapes of Wrath
And stop hassling me. I know you already said it like I know you probably already heard of Melissa Theuriau. Take away my redundancy, and you take away my heart, man. ;^)
August 23, 2006 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says...
Take away my redundancy, and you take away my heart, man. ;^)
August 23, 2006 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
toreador (Michael Austin) says...
Something being elitist by itself is bad. It starts to create a wall, and then you have the haves and have nots. Eventually reading will only be done by a certain class of "elitists" probably called a "book club" and by it's very nature will cause masses of other people not to want to be part of it, and not read.
Read, read for fun. Read whatever if your wish. But do it because you want to. Not because you have to have the higher book count, or because you have to have read the 100 most literary greats.
We are a bunch of snobs just because we classify ourselves as something "better" than those movie or TV watchers. A movie or show can lead to interest in a subject, can cause someone to explore the world. Someone might even read a book. Who really are we to judge. We help create our own demise.
August 23, 2006 at 11:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
toreador (Michael Austin) says...
And actually Joel, that study proved that mothers don't distract kids more than TV. Big shock there. I imgagine if the kids was reading a comic or doing anything other than thinking about the shot they would feel the pain less. And they need studies to find these things out....
We knew this as kids. Someone's knee hurts? Stomp on their toes. Knee doesn't hurt any longer, does it?
August 23, 2006 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cvillehawk (anonymous) says...
I am a serious reader and a serious music fan, but in both I allow for pop. I would have disdain for a gourmet who couldn't admit that a Snickers bar now and again really hits the spot. It's the same with books & music: pop works for a reason - it's fun - you just don't want to make it your entire diet.
August 23, 2006 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says...
Unless you call it nougat enrobe par chocolat avec des arachides.
August 23, 2006 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cee (anonymous) says...
Now that I'm a working gal (in the sense that I practice law), I find that I no longer desire to read a book because someone has deemed it intellectually worthy. I rack my brain all day and what I want at the end of the day is to read for the sheer joy I get from it. Sometimes its beautifully crafted prose that I enjoy, but often its just a compelling story. Work on a brief for 12 hours and "The Divinci Code" (for example) is a nice escape. I read all types of books - some of them qualify as "literature," some don't. If I don't like it, I'll put it down. But I'm confident enough in my own intellect not to be too embarrased by what I read.
We watch tv too. We never miss the Simpsons and, although don't enjoy or watch "reality" shows in general, I LOVE Project Runway.
August 23, 2006 at 1:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
avec des arachnids? What?
;)
August 23, 2006 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ladylaw (Terry Bush) says...
I too don't read as much as I once did - because I too do it for a living all day long. But that doesn't mean I don't want read all the time. Reading has long been the one sure way for me to feel better. About almost anything. Now, thank God for book tapes!
My mother hated seeing an idle child - it meant a 1 way ticket to being made to do some chore. But reading....that was encouraged at all turns. So we sat around reading, a lot.
To this day, I can barely sit still if I don't have a book or some kind of printed message in front of me. I bought (with money I'd earned) my first book when I was in 4th grade (Kateria Tekawitha; Prize of the Mohawks) and plowed through Russian novelists in grade school, long before anyone told me they were supposed to be hard to understand. I have read my share of "junk" and most of the classics (although, I have to confess that reading things like David Copperfield while in 8th grade, or younger, meant I was a nerd before that terms was used AND that I have lost sight of a lot of the details in those).
IMO book snobs are as irritating as snobs in other areas; just because you THINK your way/taste/ideas/opinions/religion/dreams are the only right choices, doesn't mean that is true ~! LOL.
I wonder if that personality trait of loving to read might not be the "glue" that connects most of the lawernce.com folks???
August 23, 2006 at 2:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beatle919 (Marcy McGuffie) says...
For someone who used to teach reading, it's probably weird that I say this...but, when I read, I read for escapism. I love getting caught up in a good (or so bad it's good) story. Then again, I haven't really read a book for a good year now. I'm willing to pick up a book again, but when I do, it's not because I want to get into a book discussion with anyone. It's just a good ole form of relaxation...
August 23, 2006 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thetomdotdot (anonymous) says...
Dazie:
Isn't the Google Translator a valid metaphor for the degradation of our society? Chocolate enrobed nougat with spiders does sound good, though. May even make it more palatable to the fine diners than snickers even.
August 23, 2006 at 2:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
toreador (Michael Austin) says...
Do book tapes count as reading a book in the same sense?
August 23, 2006 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OnShakedown (Chris Tackett) says...
Joel, you may be too busy to start wearing this hat as well, but p'haps one of the commenters here would be interested in starting a l.com book club. (?) seems like there'd be enough interest to make it a success.
though it appears it may be tough to decide on what eras/genres to read!
August 23, 2006 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Joel (Joel Mathis) says...
Chris:
I don't think that's a bad idea.
I happen to know that a long-dormant blogger here at L.com who USED to host a book club on the blog is about to return to blogging. So perhaps this person could be persuaded to revive the long-dormant book club as well.
I send the suggestion out into the universe. I'll also put the question out there, just in case the other blogger doesn't take the hint: Who here would do a book club with me?
August 23, 2006 at 4:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dazie (Aileen Dingus) says...
I'm in.
August 23, 2006 at 8:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )